try resto shaman.
theres so many stupid buttons AGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH like twice as much as any other spec i ever tried
I totally see why this aggravates most people. For some reason, it satisfies an OCD fixation of mine. I hate button bloat in other specs, but for resto, juggling all those totems and things is like playing with a paddle ball
yeah having way too many cooldowns is one of the core reasons i don’t like unholy other than genuinely not enjoying the theme anywhere near as much as frost or blood.
For raid, mostly single target, no it doesn’t. For m+, mostly aoe, yes it does.
not everyone wants to play a 4 button class. some of us like having lots of keybinds. i think my dk is pushing over 70 keybinds once i add in my engi items, pots, and toys.
You personally bloating your bars doesn’t mean Unholy doesn’t have a button bloat issue.
Sure, but you can ignore Virulent Plague, a supposedly core ability, and only lose 1% DPS at most. At that level of tuning, VP is pure bloat.
Apocalypse and DT are both 45s and pet based and could be rolled together. Army is effectively a 3min CD in raid, meaning Gargoyle could just be changed slightly & rolled in as an Army upgrade.
Saying “not everyone wants to play a 4 button class” is completely dismissive of actual feedback on a major issue, which is Unholy having multiple CDs that heavily overlap in what they buff, and have the same duration & cooldown as one another.
You don’t want to play 4 buttons? Good for you. No one playing Unholy is advocating for that, they’re advocating for removing bloated CDs that only exist to add unnecessary complexity with zero real payoff.
for what kind of play? a wide spread AoE build relies very heavily on VP. if you build for VP, its important, if you build for wounds, not so much. context matters for a statement like that.
they tried this and it immediately upset every pvp unholy because the pet kick is a signature unholy ability and losing the granularity of control was not welcome. what was suggested was to take DT off the GCD so it could be macro’d with apoc but kept separate for when you want it separate. blizz did neither and gave DT a little AoE.
i would dismiss that feedback because you are playing unholy wrong if you think that is a problem, it is in fact part of the core gameplay, a feature, not a bug. taking your various CDs and stacking them to create an appropriate damage profile for the situation at hand is how you play unholy properly. this is why we get really upset when they change one thing here or there all willy nilly because it means one of those cooldown stacks has been affected and we may be losing out on the ability to contribute during a critical moment of gameplay.
yes and unholy mains have said for years to take stuff off the GCD, not remove it or combine it, just remove the clunky feeling of mashing the hell out of a button and waiting what feels like ages for it to go through.
the clunkiness can be fixed by taking everything that doesn’t cost runes or runic power off the GCD. runes and runic power should have their own separate GCDs. the base GCD should be lowered to 1.25 seconds or bring back presences with unholy presence having a 1.0 base GCD.
Single target. You can also drop wounds entirely except for Apoc and you only lose about 2% of your overall damage. This is also taking the standard build and just ignoring those buttons, just not pressing them. When you actually build for other stuff these dps losses are almost non-existent.
For example, if you just dont build for wounds at all and go for Clawing Shadows and Death Coil damage people have only seen a .7% of a dps loss.
All while ignoring that if it is something that does damage when you use it, its on the GCD. Apoc and DT both do up front damage and they are both on the GCD. Ascendance is also on the GCD and it does a burst of damage when you use it up front.
Blizzard has told you and everyone else that. This is ignored if its something like Pillar with Whelps because Pillar doesnt actually do up front damage and its a talent that adds damage to its use so it ignores this.
Yes it badly needs a rework and by rework I mean redesign not a balancing pass like we just got and not shuffling abilities around their poorly made talent tree which is inferior to the classic era talent trees in multiple ways
Bingo - Ive always felt like festering strike could apply our diseases as well and if you do it with death and decay down it can act like outbreak currently does
what ? on pvp ? or pve ?
In pvp it’s one of the skills I need to apply the most (if you read my type of build up there in another post) and it’s the second highest damage, behind the death coil, and I can maintain 90~100k dps in a well-made burst .
you just can’t ignore and leave out ANYTHING.
I wouldn’t want to play with only 4 skills, but I would like most of the CDs to be used together without global CD, or applying an effect would trigger another effect or something like that.
In a more “frenetic” pvp, controlling diseases, wounds, stacks, death coil stacks, pet stun, tracking burst CDs, moving, using defile correctly, renewing debuffs…it’s a pain in the …in the…blizz don’t let me say the right word…it’s a pain in the backs
UHDK and Affliction Lock have more buttons than any other spec I’ve played by far.
If thats good or bad is up to the player.
Affliction is obnoxious enough I benched it and went SP.
I’d still play UHDK if there was a viable build outside commander of the dead. I prefer raw damage over pet modified damage.
ROT build for the win my brother.
full mastery with the right items and defile with fast diseases.
Any build I sim is still 8% behind. Can you be more specific.
Link build and items.
I enjoy applying dots to packs and making them flare up. Feels like being a melee afflic lock with arcane explosion.
Link to these videos/specs/guides??
I agree with you 100%. Unholy needs a pruning. I also wish d&d lasted longer when playing unholy.
It was a forum post by Taez, and he didnt want to give out the build guide or anything because it wasnt “standard”. He was just using the “standard” build though in these sim tests where VP wasnt applied and was only using Festering Strike to apply the runes needed for Apoc. The sims dont exist anymore though even though there is a link for them in his thread he made.
It is odd to me that in a thread where you’re raising concerns about bloat, you start it off by saying you like Vile Contagion.
I hate Vile Contagion, it enables the style of AOE ramp-up rotation I can not stand. I don’t think Festering Wounds is a good AOE mechanic personally.
I like how it currently is. Just DoT + Defile + Spam Epidemic while making sure Plague bringer (8seconds) doesn’t fall off.
But does UH DK have bloat?
Abso-freaking-lutely. Too many short CDs and too many GCDs strung together.
You shouldn’t be allowed and/or expected to spec into the following all at once:
Empower Rune Weapon
Abomination Limb
Dark Transformation
Apocalypse
Army of the Dead
Summon Gargoyle
Unholy Assault
It should be ERW or UA. Abom Limb or Apocalypse. (just throwing 2 together don’t read too much into that aspect)
But 7 significant CDs is too much. And when you have this many, they all start to blend together.
Like do you really feel significantly buffed by ERW? I don’t, because it is thrown together in a sequence of other CDs that it loses it’s impact.
ERW into UA into Apocalypse. Just ends up feeling like one monolithic CD.
the thing is unlike most classes our cds aren’t meant to buff our main rotation, the CD stack is our gameplay style, how and when you decide to combine ERW and UW vs use them separately is how unholy is played. complaining about too many CDs on unholy is like complaining about having to press buttons as ret.
Could not disagree more. UH DK isn’t about CDs it’s about resource management.
Runes, DoTs and Runic Power.
Also you realize last expansion we literally couldn’t take UA / Gargoyle together? And ERW was Frost only. It’s not like this has been long-time game play. It’s just bloat from the DF talent tree.
And there is no gameplay decision making on if you use ERW with or without your other CDs. You always combine them.