Alternative for night elf and forsaken fans

Syaeles-moon-guard · May 25, 2020, 1:14am

I’d rather not have BfA at all. At this point I’d rather rewind the entire game back to the end of Wrath and have an expansion that doesn’t set out to destroy my favorite zone (Darkshore) and flip the world upside down to pander to Horde players for the next ten years. But here we are.

Cailias-wyrmrest-accord · May 25, 2020, 1:42am

The problem for the Forsaken isn’t really that Sylvanas isn’t heroic, it’s mainly that they lose Sylvanas completely, because that sorta just destroyed their whole identity.

Having her die a heroic death doesn’t really do anything to solve that. Actually, it just keeps us right where we are now.

Gantrithor-myzrael · May 25, 2020, 1:48am

Did Genn or any other Alliance say that’s what they were doing there?

The cinematic clearly shows Genn was there for Vengeance.

Syaeles-moon-guard · May 25, 2020, 1:50am

So any hero story where the Protag’s motivation to defeat the Evil Villain and bring peace to the land is actually evil and they’re both just Villains attacking each other when vengeance in involved.

GG 10/10 line of reasoning.

Vanforth-wyrmrest-accord · May 25, 2020, 1:52am

I can’t come up with a single way I would have preferred this war to have been kicked off, without entirely changing the circumstances.

My own pitch was that BFA should have been Death vs. Life, not Horde vs. Alliance.

Sylvanas leading a cross faction army in service to Helya/Death, and Anduin leading a cross faction army in service to Odyn/Life/Creation.

Blizzard has proven they can’t do the faction story war right, so they should have just avoided it.

Kaileena-the-scryers · May 25, 2020, 2:01am

This was a wasted expansion. The Legion is gone and this would have been an excellent time to world build and see what the races would do without the threat of the legion having over them, plus each faction had new leadership. But apparently the only way to explore the new leaders is with another war.

Gantrithor-myzrael · May 25, 2020, 2:02am

I mean, if Alliance are going to use the “stop a psychopath from enslaving an ally.” as justification for attacking the Horde leader during a truce it should show somewhere, right?

Gantrithor-myzrael · May 25, 2020, 2:02am

Agreed.

Deathisfinal-gnomeregan · May 25, 2020, 2:11am

Telitrois:

Rather than how things played out in war of thorns/BfA, would you guys have liked better if sylvanas had her full jailor powers at the start, then gets into a death match with malfurion. Malfurion puts up a hell of a fight, unleashing his full nature powers on sylvanas but it’s not enough.

So he calls on the nature spirits like he did vs archimonde, in an attempt to destroy sylvanas, and roots her down with emerald dream ethreal roots, which prevent sylvanas from ghosting out and flying away. But she uses her jailor chains to trap malfurion down, so malfurion is within range of the explosion too. Malfurion sacrifices himself to take out sylvanas, and they both die Martyrs for their respective causes. Malfurion for night elves, sylvanas for the horde.

The explosion is enough to force the horde to retreat back to ashenvale, and the battle in BfA is at the border of darkshore and ashenvale. (Along with kul’tiras, zandalar and everywhere else.

This way malfurion dies a hero, sylvanas dies a hero, teldrassil is not lost, and the horde and alliance fight to avenge malfurion/sylvanas.

I like this because it sounds like one hell of a fight scene. Now that I think about it, their current fight scene(per the short story) would also make for a great cinematic.

Aviala-wyrmrest-accord · May 25, 2020, 2:14am

Genn’s actions in Stormheim could have led to a nuanced faction war.

I as an Alliance player have a ton of arguments I could toss out to excuse and downplay Genn’s actions, and allegories to compare them to Horde actions to push the point that the Horde is still far worse even if Genn did do wrong (which is an admittance that the first line of arguments didn’t work, but this being a fight on the internet, I will loudly deny that I had to concede anything) - but, ultimately, it was a bad (if understandable) move on Genn’s part.

…But then Blizzard decided to turn Horde villainy up to 11 in the very first act of the faction war expansion.

So the Genn argument turns into this:

The Vulpera, faction perspective, and subtext

A lot of arguments like this seem to eventually fall into the same rut:

“Look at this terrible thing the Alliance did!”
What they probably mean: “The Alliance does bad things, too. It’s not just the Horde, and the Alliance isn’t perfectly squeaky clean. It’s not a black and white fight.”
What the other side often hears: “Look at this! The Alliance is clearly just as morally bad as the Horde!”
(and in some bad cases: “Maybe even worse! I’m sure the Alliance dead deserved it somehow!”)

So, what they counter with: “Well, the Horde has done worse than that!”
What they probably mean: “Okay, yes, the Alliance does bad things. But one side kicks a puppy while the other murders people - the factions are far from equal right now!”

What the other side often hears: “Anything the Alliance does is automatically excused by this thing the Horde did! Stop whining about your piddly losses, and how dare you besmirch the glorious perfect Alliance!” ( spontaneously turns into male human paladin with a Garithos moustache )

And then this cycle repeats until everyone is too angry to keep talking to each other because they feel the other side is dismissing or ignoring their real argument.

Cassima-greymane · May 25, 2020, 2:17am

Yeah, I would’ve preferred if Sargareas’ sword was knocked out of his hand and this whole expansion never happened. The aftermath of a demon invasion that almost ended your world is kind of the worst possible time to reignite old grudges and force your battle-weary troops back into battle, after all.

Zega-black-dragonflight · May 25, 2020, 2:22am

Not really a fan of this what if because

A) Forsaken lose their main character

B) Horde is down another notable character and only powerhouse

C) It all but guarantees that the Horde will still be seen as invading the Alliances land starting the war

D) Horde will most likely bow down to alliance for peace.

Idk bout any of you, but just because your squad leader dies doesn’t mean you should shortly after give up. (With Baine on horde side though it’s practically guaranteed)

Edit: meant To reply to OP sorry aviala

Kaileena-the-scryers · May 25, 2020, 2:43am

The short story and in game depiction because for whatever reason the story gave us almost nothing.

Pellex-hyjal · May 25, 2020, 3:10am

No Teldrassil is an automatic improvement over what we got, but I still am not crazy about this version.

How is Sylvanas in any way a hero?

Katiera-moon-guard · May 25, 2020, 3:14am

Why should a character that tortures innocents be rewarded, horde players need to face that sylvanas doesnt deserve to be redeemed, and hasnt since the end of vanilla

Gantrithor-myzrael · May 25, 2020, 3:55am

Neither did Kerrigan. Didn’t stop Blizzard.

Katiera-moon-guard · May 25, 2020, 3:57am

kerrigan was literally courrpted by space parasitic Sylvanas doesnt have that excuse and like the devs been saying even recently everything she has done is from her own free will.

Gantrithor-myzrael · May 25, 2020, 3:58am

Sylvanas literally had her soul shattered by Arthas.

Katiera-moon-guard · May 25, 2020, 3:59am

Still her free will
word of god> Your opinion

Gantrithor-myzrael · May 25, 2020, 4:00am

Same with Kerrigan.