Alterac Valley in Classic

[Kasuya-azgalor]

Forums should NEVER be where they base their decisions off of. There should be IN-GAME polls like GM ticket messages with questions to every player before they ever made changes like that. The forums cater to the MOST whining of aspects… and it has us at the current version today

And what makes you think they based their decision to change AV originally off of forums and not that it just wasn’t very popular in game.

Where is your evidence that it was not?

BTW if you’re taking the position that blizzard should ignore whining on the forums then shouldn’t they just ignore your whining for 1.5 AV? After this post makes it pretty clear they view 1.12 as an improvement over 1.5 for purely game play reason

Nice, avoid m question and try and derail the topic again.

Go back and REread carefully. I said ONCE the GAME is OUT. They should make polls IN game.

You can’t be Ziryus…

Where’s that evidence kid?

[Postino-hakkar]

I beg to disagree. I said it before and I will repeat it: where is the fun in running to the end GY to spawn zerg a trivial boss?

[Dawnspirit-wyrmrest-accord]

Participation != Enjoyment

This is a factual statement. I did lots of random heroics and M+s in Legion and was never particularly enjoying it.

[Dawnspirit-wyrmrest-accord]

You experience and my experience in 1.12 was apparently not the same. We never did that in 1.12. We always had people on defense and out AV in 1.12 was never shorter then 3-4 hous.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Forums should NEVER be where they base their decisions off of. There should be IN-GAME polls like GM ticket messages with questions to every player before they ever made changes like that. The forums cater to the MOST whining of aspects… and it has us at the current version today

And what makes you think they based their decision to change AV originally off of forums and not that it just wasn’t very popular in game.

Participation != Enjoyment

Sometimes, sometimes not. Lack of participation usually does equal lack of enjoyment though

[Postino-hakkar]

If that is the case I will not have problem with it. I fear that we will be looking at 5-15 min games instead.

With no landmines and super nerfed NPCs semi afk riding from the entrance to the end GY as one big blob is very very feasible.

[Dawnspirit-wyrmrest-accord]

I mean I’m not against having an older version of AV. I’m just saying the whole “1.12 is bad because zerg” is not a good argument. The “zerg” is not a flaw with the BG itself but the players deciding to zerg.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Forums should NEVER be where they base their decisions off of. There should be IN-GAME polls like GM ticket messages with questions to every player before they ever made changes like that. The forums cater to the MOST whining of aspects… and it has us at the current version today

And what makes you think they based their decision to change AV originally off of forums and not that it just wasn’t very popular in game.

Where is your evidence that it was not?

BTW if you’re taking the position that blizzard should ignore whining on the forums then shouldn’t they just ignore your whining for 1.5 AV? After this post makes it pretty clear they view 1.12 as an improvement over 1.5 for purely game play reason

Nice, avoid m question and try and derail the topic again.

Go back and REread carefully. I said ONCE the GAME is OUT. They should make polls IN game.

You can’t be Ziryus…

Where’s that evidence kid?

You said nothing about waiting until classic launched then making in game polls to decide what version to use.

As for evidence? I think i already answered, that where is you evidence they did change AV because forum whining as opposed to 1.5 AV just not being very good.

[Kasuya-azgalor]

Is it even possible that there were LESS people at that time worried about being in an AV once they turned 50 because they wanted to hit 60? Everyone also had PLENTY to do rather than stand around by he battlemasters.

Where is ANY evidence of AV pops growing simply because they changed it?
*other than the fact that people reached the level req as the general pop of who played was growing.

[Cubic-emerald-dream]

Sometimes, sometimes not. Lack of participation usually does equal lack of enjoyment though

I particularly enjoy your tiptoeing around definitive statements.

Troll’s gotta troll.

[Postino-hakkar]

I think it is more a combination of both player behavior and map design.

If half your raid blows up on landmines the moment you get off the road you can’t simply ride past all the chokes.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Is it even possible that there were LESS people at that time worried about being in an AV once they turned 50 because they wanted to hit 60? Everyone also had PLENTY to do rather than stand around by he battlemasters.

Where is ANY evidence of AV pops growing simply because they changed it?
*other than the fact that people reached the level req as the general pop of who played was growing.

Or is it ZOMG possible blizzard looked at how many people were playing BG’s and wondered why AV was so low comparatively? And they changed it because of fundamental problems with the map not just forum complaints.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Sometimes, sometimes not. Lack of participation usually does equal lack of enjoyment though

I particularly enjoy your tiptoeing around definitive statements.

Troll’s gotta troll.

Hey I agreed with you, partcipation does always not equal enjoyment(although often times it does), however lack of participation almost certainly does equal lack of enjoyment.

[Kasuya-azgalor]

Is it even possible that there were LESS people at that time worried about being in an AV once they turned 50 because they wanted to hit 60? Everyone also had PLENTY to do rather than stand around by he battlemasters.

Where is ANY evidence of AV pops growing simply because they changed it?
*other than the fact that people reached the level req as the general pop of who played was growing.

Or is it ZOMG possible blizzard looked at how many people were playing BG’s and wondered why AV was so low comparatively? And they changed it because of fundamental problems with the map not just forum complaints.

Oh? Can I g a link or something then? Help a brotha out! You have all the answers…

[Postino-hakkar]

Or is it ZOMG possible blizzard looked at how many people were playing BG’s and wondered why AV was so low comparatively? And they changed it because of fundamental problems with the map not just forum complaints.

I see where you are coming from, but that could be said of all decision blizzard ever took towards the game. They were backed by data.

Now was that sufficient to automatically make them a good thing?

Nope, or we would not have BfA.

[Cubic-emerald-dream]

Is it even possible that there were LESS people at that time worried about being in an AV once they turned 50 because they wanted to hit 60? Everyone also had PLENTY to do rather than stand around by he battlemasters.

Where is ANY evidence of AV pops growing simply because they changed it?
*other than the fact that people reached the level req as the general pop of who played was growing.

He knows all that, as well as players being geared up, more powerfully talented, and more knowledgeable of the BG by 1.12 (helped of course by much of the content/mechanics being stripped out by then).

He is just here to cause friction. He’s a one trick pony.

[Cubic-emerald-dream]

Is it even possible that there were LESS people at that time worried about being in an AV once they turned 50 because they wanted to hit 60? Everyone also had PLENTY to do rather than stand around by he battlemasters.

Where is ANY evidence of AV pops growing simply because they changed it?
*other than the fact that people reached the level req as the general pop of who played was growing.

Or is it ZOMG possible blizzard looked at how many people were playing BG’s and wondered why AV was so low comparatively? And they changed it because of fundamental problems with the map not just forum complaints.

Participation != Enjoyment

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Is it even possible that there were LESS people at that time worried about being in an AV once they turned 50 because they wanted to hit 60? Everyone also had PLENTY to do rather than stand around by he battlemasters.

Where is ANY evidence of AV pops growing simply because they changed it?
*other than the fact that people reached the level req as the general pop of who played was growing.

Or is it ZOMG possible blizzard looked at how many people were playing BG’s and wondered why AV was so low comparatively? And they changed it because of fundamental problems with the map not just forum complaints.

Oh? Can I g a link or something then? Help a brotha out! You have all the answers…

Fact, blizzard started changing AV pretty much from the start until 1.11(1.11 being the most stable version until reinforcements).

Fact, later versions of AV saw much more partcipation whether you look at raw numbers or look at percentage of people BGing than earlier version.

Fact, in this thread blizzard has said they consider the changes made by 1.12 improvements.

Now where’s your proof any of those things isn’t true?

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Is it even possible that there were LESS people at that time worried about being in an AV once they turned 50 because they wanted to hit 60? Everyone also had PLENTY to do rather than stand around by he battlemasters.

Where is ANY evidence of AV pops growing simply because they changed it?
*other than the fact that people reached the level req as the general pop of who played was growing.

Or is it ZOMG possible blizzard looked at how many people were playing BG’s and wondered why AV was so low comparatively? And they changed it because of fundamental problems with the map not just forum complaints.

Participation != Enjoyment

Not always but then again sometimes is, millions of people leveled in vanilla, are you saying that because leveling in vanilla had such high participation it was unenjoyable?

[Anadann-icecrown]

I’m so tired of hearing this argument about participation and fun. If 100 people have a zillion hours of super ultra uber over 9000 levels of fun with 1.5, that’s all well and good for those 100 people but are those 100 people worth the extra work if a zillion people have 100 hours of fun enough to keep playing fun on 1.12? And before any nozzleheads chime in with math, yes I know that the numbers are hyperbolic.

Participation may not equal fun, but it’s far more likely to equal return on investment.