What part of “path of least resistance” do you not grasp? If you have a bucket full of marbles and you dump it out, are they acting as a coordinated team based on strategy when they all fall to the ground, or are they simply allowing gravity to do what it does?
Early AV was like a pinball machine. Simply smacking the balls up the board, while sometimes would cause you to get a special prize and congratulations from the picture of KISS on the board, more often than not it would have a bouncer smack it right back at you.
1.12 AV is like the previously mentioned bucket of marbles that are doing nothing more than allowing gravity to pull them to the ground.
The quickest route from point A to point B is a straight, uninterrupted line. There was no straight uninterrupted line in early AV.
Yes, but that doesn’t mean both teams could not ride past each other and start fighting through the NPCs. Even if they “hit like trucks”, unless they can 1 shot the tank which everyone should be behind or whatever plate wearer is designated the tank, or anyone else for that matter the healers should be able to heal them. Cause I mean, how often do you ever do AV without healers?
If someone dies, 2 things. 1. They get rezzed when all the NPCs in the area are dead, or 2 they spirit run to the closest available graveyard, then run back to the group as quickly as possible.
You seem to be under the impression that just because no one ever did, it means they can’t.
Kind of my other point. If player mentality and/choice is to just do it as quickly as possible, why are people not going to do in 1.5 what clearly ends the match as quickly as possible? I.E. ignoring the other team and brute forcing your way down the map.
And all it takes in 1.5 AV is one time for someone on either team to get everyone to work as a single unit while the other team is spread all over timbucktoo, and win in 30 minutes for everyone to start to realize that the rest of it’s pointless, if it can just be “zerged” as it were.
Never denied this.
And this is the argument I have nothing against. If 1.5 or 1.7 or whatever version you want, you think is better make that argument. The argument that the only choice or thing people will do in 1.12 is zerg because that’s the player mentality, is asinine because that mentality is not going to suddenly become “don’t run as a single group in classic” regardless of version. They’ll realize pretty quickly they can’t just ride past the NPCs, but I predict the majority of them will either leave or group up and start fighting the NPCs to get to the general, and not actually go fight the other team.
The reason why the zerg argument happens is because people keep insinuating that the zerg could happen just as easily in 1.5. You keep acting like a zerg is actually a coordinated effort. It is simply that the bulk of the force sticks together because nothing is there to stop them, no reason to dismount until the enemy base. If they had to actually engage the speedbumps in the way of minefields and NPCs, if they HAD to dismount and take objectives along the way, that coordinated zerg would fall apart and become smeared across the entire map. What is it going to take for you to understand that?
You’ve been told this over and over. The only thing you focus on is the one part of the post that mentions zerging. Like in my post I mention several reasons I thought 1.5 was better but you didn’t have the scruples to address them because you saw your way to keep this troll going. I’m pretty sure you and galdor are the same person since you both argue incessantly about this and are some of the only dissenters to getting an earlier version of av. But when pressed you say oh well I’m just arguing to argue. I’m a pure of heart never concede even though I agree with 90% of the rest of the post. Get off your high horse, admit your trolling and move on or advocate for the version you want. Stop being a contrarian just because.
The patch notes said 15-30%, you don’t know if he was nerfed by 30%. Also, a 30% buff isn’t as significant as you make it sound. Did it look like they were struggling with his damage in that video?
Go through and read my posts. I don’t have any issue or argument over “what’s better” in the earlier versions. There is a reason why I am focused on the zerg argument and not anything else. It’s almost like I disagree that 1.12 has to be a zerg and that I’ve seen it not be a zerg.
I’m not a dissenter of early AV, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:
I want the most complete version of AV possible. I want them to restore all the NPCs include the Mine layers and Korrak. I want them to restore them to their original power because I want the games to last longer. I want them to restore the complete version of the map if possible.
I dislike the arguments made in bad faith. I dislike the “1.5 can’t be zerged, it might be impossible!” argument from Mogar. I dislike the “1.12 is always a zerg, just like BfA AV” argument. I dislike all these dishonest arguments that people are trying to use to justify an earlier iteration of AV.
Ziryus is someone who wants 1.12 AV. I don’t want 1.5 AV, I want a frankenpatched version of 1.5 that includes all the positive changes and bugfixes from later patches that didn’t take away the size and scope of the battleground.
I mean, I’m not saying your arguments over why the earlier versions are better are right or wrong. In my experience 1.12 - 2.2 AV was not a zergfest. If it was for other people that’s not a fault of the BG but the players who made that choice.
Yeah you only like to argue about the zerg as if that’s the only issue with 1.12. Because your trolling or just want to be a contrarian. Just like another poster I know hmm who could that be?
If we want the same thing galdor why not combine efforts with us and try for what you want instead of nitpicking what about the arguement you dont like.
You can go back months and months and months into my posts, before the 1.12 announcement and see that I was arguing for the complete version of AV. Stop making arguments in bad faith, stop comparing 1.12 to BfA AV and claiming they’re the same thing and telling people that want 1.12 AV to go play BfA AV.
I won’t have to nitpick bad arguments if people don’t make them in the first place.
Because a bad argument is a bad argument whether you have the same goal in mind.
It’s basically making a false claim to try to get the result you want.
Like people who want to ban video games. “Video games make you violent.” It’s not a good argument, even if it agree with their position, you shouldn’t let people say something just to get the result you want.
Give me a straight answer then. Is 1.12 closer to 1.5 or bfa. Both in terms of content and the way the games play out? Bar reinforcements what’s different in it and bfa.
Edit: show me where I said they were the same thing? I never said they were the same I’ve said they were similar. Closer to each other than 1.5.
Want to see how easy it is to make an argument without bringing BfA into the discussion?
Hello Blizzard and the Classic team. I’m disappointed in the 1.12 AV announcement and would like for you to consider my position on it. I want you to restore the complete map and cast of NPCs including the Mine layers and Korrak and restore them to their original power. I would also like for you to re-implement the Goblin Shredders that were removed.
I would like for this to happen because I think the complete version of the battleground will be a more fun, interactive and memorable experience. If the NPCs are too difficult when AV launches, we’ll have a teamwork based mentality going into it. We’ll have epic, long games that will decrease in duration as the playerbase acquires more gear.
I don’t want people to make bad arguments because bad arguments hurt our odds of getting a fully fledged AV experience.
Why early Av is better AV:
Look, have you ever run an obstacle course? Could not run directly to the finish, you had to accomplish things along the way. You had to overcome objectives and then move on to the next. Now imagine adding the element of another competitor. They are going through the course in the opposing direction. Additionally when they meet one of your team mates working on an obstacle, they have the option to disrupt you and boot you back an obstacle or 3 toward where you started from. Likewise you can do the same to them. Imagine also that there are magical robots that will not allow you to simply run past them, let’s call these Enpisieze. These enpisieze can also boot you back toward where you started from. You can attempt to ignore and run past them, but they have melee weapons that will hack at you and your teammates with great enthusiasm and power.
Now imagine the same obstacle course, but with virtually no enpisieze, all obstacles on the way are optional, you can literally run to the finish line and battle one enpisieze to win the “course”. Of course you COULD do the optional obstacles, but why would you do that in a head to head competition? I truly want to utilize the chewbacca defense, because it just doesn’t make sense.
Why was 1.5-1.7 better? Because it was an optical course like the first description. The latter description is not a course, it is a sprint.
That is not even taking into consideration those that want the latter, dislike the course, yet want to run it multiple times in a shorter period of time over and over. It defies logic in a gameplay sense. It simply treats it like a loot vending machine.
Interesting to see the same dichotomy play out there as well. It does highlight the apparent different stances.
The arguments of those proposing an earlier version seem to comprise of empassioned pleas, factual evidence (patch notes, etc) and posts full of solid reasons.
The arguments of those praising 1.12 comprise of “coz Blizzard said so” and “1.12 was in vanilla”.
It is kind of strange because one side seems to be very invested in providing a memorable experience, and the other just seems to be willing to accept whatever they are given.
The former group are the reason we are getting classic in the first place. Why should Blizzard listen to them again? Because they did once already and it is why we are here.
If Blizzard listened to those who accept whatever they are given, then we would not have classic, because, you know, we thought we did, but we didn’t and all that.
