In rated BG’s it’s all about winning. How fast it takes is meaningless if you loose. Most of the rated BG’s I’ve done on my main is a war of attrition to starve the Alliance out. It’s by far the most effective.
Player mentality is player mentality. They will always look for the path of least resistance. Put lfr, lfd, flying mounts in Classic. Will people refuse to partake in them out of principle? Of course not. The devs need to design around the worst nature of the players, not the best.
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I disagree. I believe people will play the game how they want to play. If you truly just want to optimize than yeah, but again players are all about optimization, why play any hybrid class? Why play a non optimize spec? Why even bring back talents?
Player choices should matter. The fact reinforcements won’t exist in Classic means you can push back zerging if you so choose and won’t suffer any consequences besides longer play times.
Also if you’re truly worried about the worst nature of players why would you want longer AVs? Majority of people would just quit if the BG is taking to long. To this day vast majority of players hate doing non rated AV, due to the fact being, “it takes to long.”
The reason why people want the longer AV is because there is more of a reason for PVP as you can wipe 30-40 players with around 10 players.
While I agree that people will play how they want to, but the issue is, if 30+ players are going O, the 10 players that say’d D generally get wiped out so most players end up going O anyways, even on weekly’s.
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Are you talking about retail here? In retail people hate longer AVs. People dropping after the first back cap happens all the time.
In 1.12 playing D has it’s rewards due to the fact there is no reinforcements. Because people play the zerg start so often, in Vanilla when the first wave is pushed back majority of people then still would just drop out of the raid because it would be taking to long for them.
Again I understand that the zerg start is optimal way to play, but it’s not the only way to play the game. IMO removing strats just for the sake of wanting something you prefer isn’t a good thing. For me the more strats the better. As players we have the option to make our own groups and choose the play style we prefer.
Again, understandable however you don’t really gain anything much by playing D. 1.5AV would give more strats simply because you have a reason to play D, and O.
1.12 is more like retail in the sense you don’t gain anything much while playing D. Some might try playing D, some might ask for help on D (like AV weekends on retails sometimes) but again the issue is reward vs time.
1.5AV just pushed for more strat’s while also giving you rewards for participating ie handing in resources.
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You are very funny ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
The Blue post about 1.12 AV on the EU forums has 7 likes after two weeks. Yikes. The posts below it expressing disappointment about the decision have far more likes. I hope the devs are taking notice.
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You may as well give up. Other’s have told them at nauseum that it’s player choice on whether to zerg or to actually have people on defense and all they do is say “Well everyone will just zerg so.” or “It’s too easy to zerg, so everyone will.”
You don’t even need that. You only need 9. 10 people on defense can effectively hold the other team at any number of choke points for quite some time. Of course that is if they aren’t massively out geared/played. If the other 30 people want to throw a fit because they won in 15 minutes rather then 10 shrug. Get enough people to play def consistently and that becomes the strategy and then the other team starts to play def as well to prevent the dreaded zerg.
The shockingly you have a multi hour pvp focused AV rather then a multi-day raid with some pvp elements.
Yeah, Reinforcements turned AV into a zerg, prior to reinforcements I never had a single AV that was a zerg.
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Even if I give you all that (which I disagree with 100%). Why would I want to play the version of av from vanilla that’s the closest to bfa? With content missing? Such as parts of the map npc’s quest’s and items. Also the version of AV that makes it the easiest and most profitable to zerg?
Why would you want to spend more time killing NPCs then actual players when you’re supposed to be in a pvp battle ground?
Never once had a “zerg” AV until reinforcements were added, in 2.3, in BC. 1.12 can be multi-hour long pvp slugfests if people have the mind to do it.
Did you play prior to 1.10? You spent most of your time killing players because they were a larger threat to kill you than the NPCs - unless you were tying to pull some weird tactic away from the main group.
NPCs are what distinguishes AV from the other BGs and give the map its epic feel that you are part of a larger battle. Tough nps force large fights and encourage your team to use the turn ins (as intended).
Like pure PvP? I do too - there are two great BGs for that.
Don’t worry - the first few weeks of 1.12 AV will be fun, just like we remember. 1.12 sounds fine - if people want to turtle.
But listen to the guys that played AV on the private servers. In version 1.12, you will get the zerg once people get to the rep. grind. You might be that guy in zone chat calling for help defending, maybe you will convince enough to turtle. But people won’t be there to pvp, they will be there to grind rep and to get back to the que. as soon as possible.
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Let me ask you something.
People keep saying that in 1.12 players will just take the path of least resistance.
Well each side has it’s own NPCs. If the most efficient way to get honor is to win as quickly as possible, what is stop both teams from just ridding past each other and brute force their way down the map as quickly as possible?
Yeah there are lots of NPCs, but how long are those NPCs going to last against entire 40 man raid teams plowing into them? I imagine even the strongest NPCs don’t last long against the whole team. It’s not a long run from the outer edge of No Man’s Land to the enemy generals, a few minutes at most when unobstructed. Yeah the towers and bunkers have archers, but if the entire team stays together and rushes them together, those archers won’t last long.
So tell me. What’s stopping it from being a 20-30 minute raid, rinse and repeat?
Different servers, different battlegroups, different experiences.
I was a part of many a zerg in vanilla. How do I know it wasn’t TBC? I switched chars in TBC and I know the zergs were on my warrior as I used to tank Vandar.
Because it was designed to be a pvpve battleground. That was the whole point of it, so that it mimmicked an actual world zone.
Also, riding past the opposing army to kill the general first is spending time killing npcs rather than pvping. Again you are ignoring all of us who played back then, that are telling you that more pvp was caused by the npcs in the early versions.
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And yet you failed to answer the question. If you’re sooooooooo concerned about 1.12 being nothing but a zerg, what is stopping both teams from just riding across no man’s land, ignoring the other team as they do, dismounting, and as one giant group, brute forcing their way through every NPC.
I mean to me, 20-30 minutes of moving as a “zerg” as it were and brute forcing down every npc/group of npcs you come across would be a far more efficient use of everyone’s time then to sit there and try to fight NPCs and the other team for days on end.
Because those NPCs that hit like a truck and could not be easily taken down would be repeatedly tossing ghosts back to the previous GYs, whittling the zerg down across the entire map. In case you did not realize it, flipping towers and GYs was not as simple as killing the guards and taking the flags. You had to wait X amount of time before your guards appeared there. While waiting you would have enemies that were killed getting booted back to earlier GYs, spreading them out across the map as well.
1.5 was not zergable. I honestly do not care if you believe this or not.
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You really think the entire team of 40 would have trouble with NPCs? The entire raid. Not 10. Not 20. Not 27. 40. Yeah, I don’t think any NPC is standing against a group of 40 players for long. But keep telling yourself whatever you have to.
The point is its harder to do. We want it to be harder to zerg. We want parts of the map that were removed back and n not to be nerfed into the ground and have most of them removed entirely. We want mines we want the goblin shredders. The fact of if you can zerg or not isnt the only issue. We want the giant epic battlefield in all its glory. We don’t want the version that is closer to retail then to 1.5.
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