Oh I agree that we shouldn’t use “Blizzard changed it in the past” as an excuse. Blizzard changing it is why we’re here in the first place.
I’m just saying, they did gut raiding pretty hard =P
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I am anti-blizzard’s history of bad decisions.
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I disagree with some things Blizzard does, but most of the time it’s decisions that are against the general will of the playerbase e.g. no flying. You might think WoW started “going bad” when they listened to the wants of their playerbase, but to me it seems the very worst gripes people have (including me) with the game are things that Blizzard forced on the game against player outcry, arguing that it somehow makes the game better.
Plus, these are your coveted Vanilla developers. In the moment, during that era, they decided that Alterac Valley needed major revisions. You can’t blame this on later interference. 1.12 AV is Vanilla AV whether you like it or not.
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Well, they did not gut existing raids (save the move of naxx) as much as just create less and less compelling ones.
I am not arguing that history did not happen. I am pointing out that them thinking that the changes were needed and “good” did not magically make them needed nor “good”.
So they’re removing the fact that vanilla AV was a questing zone where you farm up goods to help push? Not to mention my undead warlock was hoping to get his grubby paws on a severed night elf head and all the other fun bits… guess i just wont bother with av after i farm out the rep (if i even need it)
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I agree with the top Classic reddit post
Blizzard: Hey guys we’re giving you 1.12
Community: Cool no changes.
Blizzard: This includes the 1.12 AV.
Community: :shocked pikachu face:
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That really isn’t what was conveyed in your post.
Making Classic WoW is doing something in response to player feedback. Just stop.
Plus, Luuni has already demonstrated that there was, in fact, negative feedback over AV and Blizzard was at least under the impression that it was unpopular. I know a lot of people here are in support of the original implementation of AV, but I’ve heard enough provably-false revisionism on the forums to learn to doubt it.
I know. Neither of us knows the definitive state of the public opinion of AV in 1.12. The difference is only one of us is pretending to.
They didn’t remove anything. They are implementing the version of AV that coincides with the Vanilla patch they committed to implementing right from the beginning.
It’s pretty incredible to watch the mental gymnastics of people who for some reason expected something else.
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And there goes any desire to play Classic I had. What the hell is the point of making an AV the exact same as retail, basically?
You had a unique, amazing battleground, but you seem intent on consigning it to the dustbin of history.
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“A thing has happened” is not the same as “A thing always happens”.
Your logic is simply faulty. You cannot draw these inferences and act like they are facts.
(PS - I’m not even necessarily in favor of 1.4 or 1.5 AV. They definitely had flaws with them. I just think that 1.12 was too far. I’d be perfectly happy with anything 1.5-1.8, and even 1.10 would be acceptable.)
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To all the people saying they said 1.12 all along.
They said 1.12 as a base to work off of. We took that to mean 1.12 for all the bug fixes the game had by then.
Again if it was always going to be 1:1 1.12 why didn’t they say that from the beginning. Why did it take over a year to start getting updates.
1.12 AV is where the term welfare epics started.
We are 3 months away from launch and only now we know 1.12 as a base means 1.12 as a whole.
Now we know all the worries we had were warranted. There’s a reason they are waiting to the last minute to give us updates and to spring stuff like this up.
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It actually doesn’t make any sense in the slightest. You cannot get old AV in any other MMO on the planet, in any other game on the planet. It literally doesn’t exist.
Why would you…just copy retail AV and call it a day. Especially in a CLASSIC version of a game meant to attract a different playerbase than retail AND supposed to be an authentic experience of how vanilla was? 1.12 AV is NOT that.
Are they even thinking?
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If we are picking and choosing content from Van that we liked then we should allow the mage ability “Khadgar’s Unlocking” or maybe the Paladin abilities holy strike/crusader strike into classic? I mean snowball effect and what not.
In all seriousness we asked for a 1.12 cake and now it’s time to eat it.
#nochanges
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It’s been a long time, but I remember in TBC the overall strategy was to AFK jump in the cave. It ruined this BG. Was that after 1.12 or was 1.12 when you got honor even if you lost?
I don’t give a damn anymore just push it to live service so I can stop chewing my nails.
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It’s literally the final Vanilla version of the battleground.
I agree that lately Blizzard has done things contrary to the wishes of the playerbase. But generally their decisions are absolutley influenced by player feedback. Even in BFA they are remaking the Azerite system next patch; that wasn’t their original plan, that was their plan adjusted to player’s feedback. And that’s in an expansion that routinely gets lambasted (rightly) for ignoring player feedback. There are countless examples of response to player feedback throughout WoW history.
Anything other than 1.12, the working patch of the game, is unreasonable. Stop cherrypicking which parts of Vanilla you want.
Revisionism. They were pretty clear that it was 1.12 through-and-through, including the state of classes and game systems. Even before they confirmed it the commonly held belief was that WoW Classic would be 1.12 with minimal changes.
Are you? They didn’t copy retail AV. They copied Vanilla AV. You’re just mad that it was the “wrong” Vanilla AV in your eyes. 1.12 AV is authentic Vanilla AV because 1.12 is Vanilla.
How does it not make sense to have 1.12 AV in 1.12 Vanilla? That’s literally the only outcome that makes sense.
Mixing-and-matching content from different patches is an incredibly bad idea. Plus, you people can’t even agree on what version of AV you wanted. They could have gone with any version and had the same negative response about how that particular AV was not the real version.
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1.8 AV was in Vanilla longer than 1.12, by the way.
it’s also nearly an identical 1:1 copy of retail AV, basically only lacking reinforcements. Exciting!
I can’t wait to AFK in AV for 2 days for exalted then never touch it again. Fantastic form of content.
1.12 AV is just catering to the retail playerbase/retail design mindset of “do it for the reward not for fun”.
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There are plenty of examples of them listening to it, and plenty of examples of them ignoring it.
Trying to act like “They made this change, therefore it must have been in response to feedback” is not a warranted conclusion. It might have been in response to feedback. But it also might not have been. The fact that the change was made is not proof that the feedback existed.
PS - We are already getting non-1.12 phased content releases. Pretending like asking them to do things is unreasonable is absurd. There’s nothing wrong with making a polite request for improvement, which is all I have ever done or all I will ever do. If they choose not to listen to me, that’s fine, I’ll still play. But I’m not going to pretend like I’m not disappointed.
1.12 was later than 1.8, by the way.
I thought that was worth mentioning because that’s the part that actually matters.
It’s nonsense to call that a copy of retail WoW AV. Retail WoW AV is a copy of Vanilla AV with stuff added/tweaked. Lacking reinforcements is actually a big deal; it means the battles can go indefinitely, which means the quests are relevant if the team can’t pull off a boss rush.
1.12 is not catering to teh ev1l casuls or whatever the current buzzphrase in vogue is. 1.12 is catering to the fact that Classic WoW is based on 1.12. Because 1.12 is the latest version of Vanilla, the most refined version of Vanilla, and the one most realistic to focus on when making a replica of classic WoW.
1.12 AV was the default choice with 1.12 WoW, and 1.12 WoW was the default choice for classic WoW. End of story.
Also, is the “afk for 2 days” thing really what bothers you about it? Because that seems to be the part that people actually liked about 1.5/1.8 AV: the fact that it went for days.
The responding to player feedback angle is pointless at this point because you are just taking a wishy-washy “sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t” position. The original point was that it is a reasonable assumption that people were complaining about it if they perceived that it was unpopular and needed to change. And that’s true.
There is a huge difference between time-gating content and literally having different states of content coming from different patches throughout Vanilla. So, yes, stitching together various stages of the evolution of Vanilla content is unreasonable. Whether 1.8 is an improvement over 1.12, and I seriously doubt it, is subjective anyway. If you are trying to garner sympathy with your wording here it’s not working. You are asking for something unreasonable, plain and simple.
Thanks for the update on AV and the explanation. I hope you do re-think Korrak though.