100% agree, I know the physical build won’t probably ever match Elemental Build performance wise, I’m just trying to close the gap a little.
33%.
Elemental Weapons is a 2 point talent for 5% Fire/Frost/Nature per point for a total of 10% increase.
Then you can add another 10% from 2pc tier for a total of 43% if it’s following up a Stormstrike.
Bruh. I think you’re thinking of Elemental. The entire point of Enhancement is that we mix physical attacks with magic spells. We are spiritual warriors. Our most iconic ability, Stormstrike, is a physical attack.
If anything, this stark division between these facets of our spec where we have to dedicate ourselves wholly to only one damage type at the expense of the other that Dragonflight has created by adding these amplification effects - especially the one to Feral Spirits - is the deviation from what the spec should be.
There should not be a “physical build” and an “elemental build” to Enhancement in the first place, because the entire point of the spec if that we do both.
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Maybe I am more literal. Ability is something you can use. Spirit wolves is a ability because you press the button and it does something. You still spec into it. A talent would be more something passive which you do not use.
Wolves is a ability. The others are talents. So I will apologize to you that I am not a normal forum person who changes words meanings.
But again I will say it again. I have never said they shouldn’t do it or whatever. I said it is a bigger change than you think which is still going over everyone’s head.
Even with the talents they have for physical to get any type of buff, it will still scale extremely far below elemental. If they clicked a button and they both did the exact same damage right now as you gear elemental is going to take off doing more damage. That’s just how scaling works.
But then to split hairs that could be completely fine with everyone because the mental does have a cap where physical does not. So in general it could underperform on Siegel target and cleave even if it’s by a good margin because it will topple elemental for any big pulls.
We can have multiple modifiers to physical damage. But if all of those get you equal to where damages at the beginning of a season, you are not picking up damage compared to elemental as the season progresses.
And then all I was trying to say with the spender. Why would we want another big spinder when you want it to be physical damage… You have to use 10 MS to buff your physical damage. So in order for that ability to get that buff you would have to use MS before you use that ability.
So to use that ability there is massive setup and unless you’re running PW You will probably never use it at a full buff. So again why would anyone want that when I can just take EB…
And someone who’s played the game long enough. I can easily tell you that design is going to be met with so much hate. That definitely could fit the description of clunky.
I mean it is a interesting concept. But it’s a lot harder to balance another huge ability at the same time trying to make it equal to the choice that is there but having to make it different. But trying to make it something that’s physical damage can’t work unless it just does a ridiculous amount of damage and doesn’t require any buffs.
Like I have already stated and I gave good examples. The biggest change is going to have to come from wind fury and buffing it. I don’t care about the totem for all I care they can get rid of it because it is so pointless that it even exists anymore. Buff SS because it just hits like a wet noodle and does not scale with anything we get. Revert a lot of the SS talents into something for physical damage increase. Make DW a lower cooldown. But if they do change how DW works. They definitely need to move PW. I don’t care about people arguing the flow or it doesn’t fit their theme. That’s just a dumb argument. But you cannot have DW and PW on the same side with the amount of damage. Both of those do to mobs. We would get one massive nerf.
And I would forget about a choice note on EB. Just alone the outcry that would come from that with blizzard being called lazy just alone. You cannot have a choice node where it is pretty much exactly two of the same things. Just one does elemental damage and one does physical damage. Because no one is going to take the physical damage while the other one scales.
Ret is exactly getting this though, holy strike and the other radiant, one adds holy and physical dps to skills the other holy and Fire… so what’s stopping us from getting this?
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There is a big difference trying to say ret is getting it.
They are completely redoing that spec due to other issues. They’re not doing it to balance certain play styles. Again, you are trying to compare apples to oranges.
In your mind, you see it as a easy fix when it is a lot more complicated than you are trying to comprehend.
Also you need to play around with the specs. Blizzard before it even came out. Said there are going to be some extremely terrible builds. Honestly, I think anyone trying to use DRE is using a extremely terrible build. I mean there are some physical bills that do work. They just have some downfalls like some other builds.
I just now finished a 17 NOK on a alt where there was a enhance with 403 ilvl. The guy finished doing 70k damage for the run and that does involve some extremely terrible pulls by the tank where they would pull a mob of three or a mob of two or four just alone. His boss DPS was pretty low which would be kind of expected. I mean it wasn’t bad.
Maybe I shouldn’t call it physical because one I can’t see is Bill because it wasn’t updating but I know he was running DW and ended with a little over 10 million with that. I know he was not running anything below hailstorm because lava lash was extremely far at the bottom.
It was about a straight 20% split between frost shock, lightning bolt and chain lightning.
I have never seen Spirit bomb but I’m guessing that is the alpha wolf which is still pretty far down.
But at his item level and doing that much damage there are physical builds that are viable after seeing that. Just because your build isn’t working just means it’s not optimal and there are better choices. Like he definitely went for PW over ascendance which is definitely a lot smarter.
BcQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIRSKAJSSiIJk0SkAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Some physical that I just did on target dummy. Peaked out at 355k and after 3.5 min ended just over 200k.
Normal elemental build topped out at 260k and finished just below 200k.
It was three different test and all pretty close I just took the highest numbers. Problem is when you take it into a dung, trash size and amount tank pulls comes in.
The other issue Ascendance just will never be a good choice for a dungeon honestly. It is a 3min CD. Giving up PW or wolves for that will never work. Long CDs in a mythic plus is never going to be a good choice.
If you want something that isn’t around LL try that build. Just have to make sure the setup is good and profit but your ST dps is going to drop compared to elemental.
I stopped reading here. Pepega. Don’t waste your time on this troll Pepino.
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First, Enhance was bottom tier for a lot of the SL beta, until they made fixes.
Second, PWave was useless until they added lava lash spread which was exactly what I said (9.1? 9.1.5? forget the specific patch when they finally added it). Even then, I still supported necrolords because the defensive ability (Fleshcraft) covered a lack of pvp defensives for enhancement.
Fire Nova was also complete garbage until they added lava lash spread which again was exactly what I said. It is still not largely picked unless you are pushing into content with very large pulls (M+, and even then I am pretty certain Hailstorm still outperforms). Hailstorm is just largely easier to play with, or you take uncapped physical for big AoE.
You are literally calling a talent an ability. It’s both. There are passive talents, and active talents. It’s called a talent tree. That is where you get the ability…by selecting the TALENT. Whether it is passive or active, it is still a talent and always has been a talent. Just like there are baseline abilities (Flame Shock, Flametongue Weapon, Primal Strike, Lightning Bolt) and TALENTED abilities. Read it again. TALENTED abilities. You do not get them without spending a TALENT point.
You were proven wrong about missing the spellpower modifiers for elemental blast, not just by me, but by multiple people.
And you completely miss the point that they can tune the portion of mastery that affects windfury/stormbringer proc chance while leaving the portion that affects our elemental damage alone to bring up the damage of the physical side. This would help minimize the scaling issue that you see existing.
Please just stop.
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Talking about DF beta… When Enhance was not even NEAR bottom tier.
Again DF beta. But weird how you think it would of been good then but not now…
Bro you didn’t come up with this. Anyone who played shaman in WoD knew this is what was going to happen. You were not stating some theory craft. It was the exact same gameplay as WoD.
Hailstorm DOES outperform and I said it would but you argued it wouldn’t during the beta talking about theory crafters are saying FN which they were using at the start and switched to Hailstorm. Hailstorm isn’t easier to play over Fire nova, Fire Nova is easier.
Ability is something you use. That is part of the definition. People don’t say use a defensive talent… The word is ability. Also with your logic are you going to argue that LB has a 150% modifier because of PW? No. When you use a certain ability it does. So you wouldn’t talk about EB differently. It is just modified by passive talents. And going to what I said in the first place, it is just a good ability because it already hits hard. Before modifiers it is twice the damage of LB. That is what makes it good, which is what I said and is correct.
No because you don’t count wolves as a modifier… Again are you seriously going to say LB always does 150% extra damage? No… You will use EB when wolves are not up. So it is not accurate to use the modifier unless you are going to talk about the modifier of LB. You can’t pick and choose just because you want to say “I am right”.
Since you ALWAYS seem to think you are so smart bro, go find WHERE I SAID ANYTHING about it affecting elemental damage. GL man. Can tell you did not read the entire thread because I already gave ideas and said what the problem was. Do you just come into threads just to argue about nothing and say someone said X when they did not?
The only thing I turned down and said was stupid was the fact he said have another ability that is the SAME AS EB!!! But it does physical damage. Then you tried to come in and defend it. Then I said nah because EB scales with mastery where the new spell wouldn’t so why would you take it… One spell would do more damage and keep scaling all xpac and the other would never change…
Want to tell me to “stop it” when it sounds like I know what I’m talking about and use actual facts about the game. Yet you say “dO yOu PlAy EnHaNcE”"
Which is it? Stop moving goal posts. You stated Shadowlands, then are like ‘Oh, I actually mean Dragonflight’ of which I said we would be bad in pvp. We are.
No it wasn’t the exact same gameplay as in WoD because WoD had several differences.
Here are the two abilities
- WoD Fire Nova
Dragonflight Fire Nova
In case you can’t tell the differences, I’ll list them
- Fire Nova had 4/4.5 sec cooldown, now it has a 15 second cooldown (3 fire novas for every 1 in DF)
- Fire Nova was uncapped damage, now its not
- Fire Nova had a 100 yard range (which is why Enhance saw great success in rot teams for Rated BG), now its melee range
In addition, during WoD
- Flame Shock healed you a % of dmg it did (thanks to glyphs)
- Flame Shock duration could increase indefinitely (thanks to glyphs)
EB does more damage with wolves out than without — There are times where you will pick LB over EB if wolves are about to come off cooldown because you want to fit as many EBs inside the wolves uptime as possible, because EB does more dmg. Learn the spec.
Ok…Here they are
Revamp Earthen Spike to only improve Physical damage. Now you have a spender that can be used in place of EB that will increase the value of haste, as well as mesh with the physical side of things.
More haste =
- faster attack speed
- more windfury procs
- more doomwinds procs
- more Stormstrikes
- more stormbringer procs
- lower GCD
- more wolf uptime as it cooldowns faster
Having a physical spender is a good idea, especially if its designed in a way that can augment the physical side of things.
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No fam we were playing Shadowlands… DF wasn’t out and only in beta. So… back in Shadowlands… Shadowlands was retail… yes you said also in PvP but we’re defending with some other guy how enhance was going to be crap in DF not only in PvP.
Bro… It is the SAME GAMEPLAY!! And yes, even in wad it was capped at 6… It even says that in the tooltip because I played enhance back then 
.
You literally can try and twist it any way you want. It is the exact same gameplay… Even if the yards are different, it’s the same gameplay. Even if one is a target of Max 4 and the other is Max 8. It’s the same gameplay…
Again now you are literally just trying to argue to argue and you’re trying to split hairs for absolutely no reason. It is the same play style which makes it the same gameplay. Are you going to argue It’s different because the damage is different 
omg lol.
Bro, at this point it really sounds like you need to learn the spec. And you also need to learn the discussion because you’re also avoiding common sense. All you have to do is go back and read and understand when you’re using the word modifiers. So if you’re going to say, elemental blast has a modifier of 30% because of wolves by that logic than anytime you talk about lightning bolt you have to say as 150% modifier… So let’s just ignore that right? Because it does not fit your criteria .
And they’re still plenty of times. You are going to cast EB without wolves up because you’re not going to save two elemental blasts which are going to hit harder than a lightning bolt. If your wolves are 30 seconds away. You’re not even going to save them if it’s 15 seconds away.
Minus PW I guarantee you I’ll use LB less than 10 times throughout an entire dungeon.
Okay now let’s do this. Go back to what you said where I said it was going to affect elemental damage changing mastery… Let me help you everything you just linked it does not say that again. So just like before you are arguing to argue and you’re making things up saying someone said something that they did not because you just want to argue…
it would not be a spender. Because of someone’s trying to run ascendance or DRE that means when it procs or when you use it. That’s when you would want to use this spender. Which means you would have to have MS. Or you’re just going to use it only on DW. There are ways around it but it is beyond pointless to make a whole new “spender” when the AOE burst and ST burst can be high already. The issue is cooldowns. All they have to do is lower cooldowns and change some of the pointless SS talents (since it still hits for crap) to buff physical damage and it is done. Adding another spender which I would even assume you wouldn’t take.
Even the build that I linked up top I was doing very high damage but you cannot take EB.
No it was completely different. I already explained the differences and how enh had a place in pvp rot teams because of it. WoD fire nova excelled in rbgs because you could spread flame shock with lava lash and then continue to pop it off at flag nodes from across the map due to the 100 yard range. It is currently ignored…because it’s cooldowns is too long, it’s range too short, and there are no fights in game where the adds survive long enough to make it valued over hailstorm. And again, one is uncapped AoE and the other isn’t. YouTube some shaman farming firelands trash with just fire nova…you can’t do things like that with current nova due to the range and triple cooldowns.
man, do you read correctly? The current pops off every flame shock target to deal dmg to 6 targets max. The wod version pops off 6 targets to do dmg to uncapped dmg to all nearby enemies. They are not the same.
in these scenarios you are right because EB would be up as it has a 12 sec cd. So if you use EB with 15 seconds until wolves, it’s gonna be up when wolves are up. But if you use it with 3 seconds until wolves, you are nerfing your dmg, because had you saved it and used lb instead, you would get 2 more powerful ebs up during wolves due to the modifiers they provide.
In regards to your lb, I don’t understand where your 150% modifier is coming in. Are you saying that using eb or lb during wolves is the same because they both receive modifiers? If so, that’s not the case because EB hits harder to begin with. If that’s not what you mean, please clarify your 150% lb comment.
it would be a spender because you are combining it with legacy of the frost witch to maintain the physical boosts. With a 20 sec cd you would be alternating it with lb/lvb. You’d want to couple it with wolves and doom winds as well. Seems like you’d be using it quite a bit as a spender.
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No, I’m not comparing it the the complete overhaul, you clearly mentioned
When clearly it can be done, and having the option to choose physical or elemental damage would even do wonders in PvP, Just like Ret and how being able to switch damage output on the fly in PvP we have that choice too aswell.
You queue into an area, see a DK on the other team, well time for a quick talent change atleast allowing some skills not to be completed hard countered.
You continue to see this cup as half full, while the majority see it half empty.
Even the Build you linked isn’t a physical build.
Like everyone been saying to you, the Elemental Build is in a far better place because it currently first hits harder, has a better kit and synergises vastly better. They have Talents to prop up the dps modifiers, they’ve made AoE vastly easier as going through your regular rotation spreads flame shock then packs a huge haste boost with PW. It’s very fluid.
Might I add PW generates 10 stacks of MSW too and on half the cd of Doomwinds.
Why can’t Doomwinds be the same? Give 10 MSW stacks to automatically go into LotFW, give it a cleave component?. It’s twice the cd than PW and twice as bad. And definitely last longer then 8 seconds.
Really the Physical Build doesn’t need such a huge overhaul like you think, but I do agree on the back end of things it prob is a lot of work, but a few adjustments can get us there.
You mentioned a lot our mastery, leave it as 1:1 increasing our Frost, Fire and Nature damage, that doesn’t need to change, but increase the chance it allows Windfury to Proc and Strormbringer.
Increase the % Windfury Totem just works on ourselves, leave it 20% to everyone else but for the Shaman casting it make it 40-50%, literally Windfury Totem and Stormstrike are the most iconic spells for Enhance, it needs to be impactful, even when switching to Enhance it’s the two abilities shown on the spec selection. Yet both realistically don’t do much, heck Windfury totem gets avoided.
Secondly I’d argue PW and Ascendence should be switched on the spec tree, if your going through the right side of the tree you are 100% not going Ascendence/DRE, so that’s a little QoL placement for the Elemental build.
Ascendence you don’t want baseline, if anything you hate it, but the Elemental build doesn’t require it, the Physical Build does, they seriously could just condense Ascendence and DRE into one node for everyone else.
Ascendence has DRE backed into it, the following talents attached don’t need to change. This could be spec wide change effecting Elemental and Resto too as they both are complaining about it’s ridiculous rng to function. So as a elemental build in enhance, nothing to worry about, you don’t even select it. But for the Physical build, Ele and Resto Shamans which aren’t performing great, more so Elemental it provides a reliable cd and has the little rng attached. Huge QoL.
No one is arguing for anything to change to the Elemental Build, it’s got a lot of synergy and works well, although I’d argue in Raid, both Enhance and Elemental continue to fall behind, more so Elemental being close to the bottom and now Enhance moving to the bottom half.
I’m just in the boat off, if things are underperforming, being avoided, it needs to be buffed, especially when it comes to Windfury totem and literally the spells that defined what being an Enhance shaman was about.
Edit: I just want to mention you clearly are passionate about the Elemental build, and that’s great, you’ve got a play style that works for you and love. I’m in no ways saying that will ever change for you, it will perform just as it is.
No bro not even close lol. They were taken because of Locks with SoC botting doing massive massive damage. Anything with DoTs was picked to force a dispel to eat the UAs because they had to dispel SoC before they started the copy paste explosions all over the place. It had nothing to do with 100 yard range. Also range doesn’t change gameplay. It is the exact same game play. No matter HOW you split it, it is same gameplay lol. LL spreads FS, hit fire nova. Same amount erupts. Doesn’t matter if hit only hits six or 8. Same play style. That is like saying we have a new gameplay with the talent that makes chain lightning hit 5 targets instead of 3… It is the same lol. Nothing changed except how many people it hits… FS—LL—FN in WoD. FS—LL—FN in DF… Same… gameplay…
Tomorrow if they made MS hit 2 targets it doesn’t change the gameplay… It will follow same priority and follow same style.
Depends on your MS generation and were you are at with MS. You can go 5+ seconds getting no MS it is RNG.
Wolves give EB modifier. If you are going to constantly say it is buffed by X% because of it, then you HAVE to say the same thing about LB because PW modifies it. They are both abilities that modify damage. No one is going to run around saying LB is buffed by 150% because of PW. So you would not say the same thing about EB and wolves. Unless you do, but if you don’t, the wolves debate is just arguing to argue.
Part of point is how long the CDs are for the big physical damage. It would have to have a short CD like EB. There would be no point in really taking it if you would only time it with DW. It would be a button you push once a min-1.5 depending on whatever the CD is. You would be buffing passive white damage and so on. Depending on it would be made, EB could still come out on top with its passive buffs you are getting. It is a lot more RNG. Unless you have good WF procs after using it could balance out.
It’s just a pointless thing to make another single target spender that has one purpose that would be to buff DW. That isn’t really thoughtful gameplay or intuitive.
I’m not going to respond anymore because you really just don’t get it…
Physcial build does NOT require DRE OR Ascendence. Physical build focuses on SS and WF. The build I gave you does that. It is 100% a physical build. A physical build isn’t no elemental damage you are playing a shaman.
If you are trying to balance it for PvP it isn’t going to work because you will destroy PvE side with baseline Ascendance. If you don’t understand that, go play mythic trying to run around with Ascendance 3min CD in higher keys. It just sounds like you want a build with Ascendance… They already said there will be bad builds and Ascendance will be a bad build as long as it stays a 3min CD. Unless you are running content where bosses die in 45 seconds.
The build I gave you is a physical build. On 6 targets with right setup was doing over 350k dps. ST was about 10-15k less (missing EB and wolves are pretty pointless ST). So at least in mythic plus that is viable depending on your tank pulls (mob size) and how you use CDs.
You can be in, love with Ascendance and want it to work. It just isn’t worth it in a Mythic plus. Only way to make any build with Ascendance work is to change it.
Iconic spells is also what you think of it. When I think of Enhance and the way enhance was even advertised with William Shatner, LB is the iconic spell. SS was never a hard hitting can’t wait to use it spell.
Just go try the build I linked on a test dummy. Figure out the set up then take it into a mythic. Depending on group I would say you should get full affect on mobs pulls around 18s. mobs might stay alive long enough to get it each pull.
If you like big numbers can work. PW on luck can get 1 mil of LB followed by your DW with massive haste buff hitting everything with Crash L and Sunder…
In WoD, on Eye of the Storm — I can have an indefinite time flame shock up at Flag and pop fire nova to spin the middle of the map, while standing at mage tower to defend/attack it.
I cannot do this in Dragonflight.
You are right though. Exact same playstyle.
Primordial Wave does buff lightning bolt…
And yes, people do point out that pwave buffs your next lightning bolt. But its primary purpose is to get massive haste boosts based on HOW MANY lbs you push out. It specifically gives us modifiers that change our priority when it is available…
But not a single person will say pwave doesn’t increase the dmg of your next lightning bolt. It’s a modifier…
You even say it yourself – it’s buffing white damage and windfury dmg. With a 20 sec cd, you are pressing it 6 times a minute. Meaning, you will maintain the uptime for increasing your white dmg and stormstrike (which would make haste more valueable), more than once every 1.5 minute. Does it work well to also time it with Doom Winds and DRE? Sure. But we cant control DRE, so maybe now Ascendance becomes attractive on its own? 20 sec cooldown will be available to sync with a 3 min cd if you are pressing it every 20 sec. 20 sec cooldown will be available to sync with a 1.5 cooldown if you delay the 7th push by 10 seconds. You weave it between Lbs, like how you currently weave PW+LB between EBs.
Could EB still come out on top? Maybe. But this gives an additional tuning knob to adjust the physical dmg without impacting any of the elemental spec’s gameplay.
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I said why not condense the two? Keep it as a talent choice for those who opt into it. Secondly no way Ascendence should stay at 3 min we literally have one of the longest dps CDs as melee literally avoided completely and for what it does definitely should not be 3 min.
LB is iconic as the class not spec, I’m talking about Enhance not Shamans in general, that’s like saying Death Strike is iconic for Frost DKs, no it’s not, it’s iconic to the class not spec. Resto and Elemental don’t get Windfury Totem and Stormstrike. Which has been around for Enhance forever.
I 100% agree, I’ve always said it needs to be buffed, 3 minutes compared to every other melee cd is ridiculous, I’ve even said add some sort of bad luck protection to DRE, I’ve ran keys where literally DRE would proc 4 times in a 30+ Min key.
Then I’ve ran keys where it would proc back to back at the right moment and you feel good, you dps then completes with a DH and Rogue that arnt restricted by pure rng to perform.
I’ve suggested making it similar to Paladins, pre overhaul, solid 2 min cd but has rng baked into it, giving Ascendence the same treatment isn’t a huge stretch if anything it might see it actually played.
No, I’m advocating that our talents and performance be viable, no Class or spec regardless should have dead builds and talents or it’s peromance be 100% based on rng, like I’ve mentioned previously, Breath Build on Frost DK performance was insanely well, making Obliterate useless, so what did Blizzard do? Fix the issue allowing both build to perform giving Obliterate talents useful and viable choice.
I seriously don’t understand your point because instead of making dead never pick talents viable or useful you’d rather nothing to change.
It’s no secret Alpha Wolf is never picked, not even in AoE because of how Elemental Spirits buffs the damage of literally everything, you got Storm Wolves, Chain Lightning is your go to fire Wolves makes lava lash, flame shock and fire nova insane, frost wolves ice strike and hail storm, regardless of the wolf combination you have a go to AoE spender, and vastly improves Ele Blast as ST, it literally covers all gaps.
What does alpha wolf do to compete? Literally the way you speak is to basically just flat out remove build diversity and just be a one trick pony.
Why does Primordial Wave trump Doomwinds every way possible but is on half its cd and generates 10 MSW stacks on a 45 second cd?.
I seriously cannot fathom why as someone who plays shaman rather not see other talents viable and competitive.
It’s clear that from the forums and even on the ptr forums that this isn’t a solo issue, many people have been trying to get the Physical Side buffed to compete.
But your on this weird crusade even proven multiple times incorrect with how certain talents and modifiers work enhancing spells creating synergy while the Physical Build doesn’t.
If anything your literally arguing for the sake of it, get told your wrong, proven your wrong, but that doesn’t change anything for you. Which if anything just shows your lack of knowledge and understanding of how Enhance performs and functions.
But you’re trying to use iconic as it is the oldest ability. Iconic has nothing to do with the oldest ability. Storm strike has never been anything special ever for enhance. No one said I’m going to play enhance because I want storm strike lol.
Just from this it will cover a lot of the stuff you said above. If you have played this game long enough, you know no matter what, there is always dead talents and dead builds. There is no way around it. Say they make all these changes and physical is now the top damage and ascendance becomes some beast. Now other talents are dead and other builds are dead. They can balance them all they want but if one performs 5% better that’s where majority of the people are going to rush to and the other ones are considered dead because no one picks them when you look at the most popular builds. That is what people look at when they consider something dead.
The problem with you is you want to run a very particular build in a very particular game mode. What you want is a terrible choice for that game mode. It is a dead talent because it is a terrible talent for it. It has other niches where it is strong.
You’re not looking for a physical build you are looking for a ascendance descendants build. There is not going to be one decently strong one for mythic because of the build. But the thing is for it to be capable. They have to change it which then also changes other game modes with it. Like it’s a massive buff than PVP lowering the cooldown. In single target raids that’s a massive buff lowering the cooldowns. Which is going to make other talents again dead. Everything has a niche.
But if you find it fun that is completely on you and that’s cool. Ascendants has literally been complained about for so long that people do not even want it. There are people who are in love with it, but there’s tons of people who don’t even want it, which is why it was probably made into a talent. Then when it was a bottom tier talent for our tree people still didn’t want to pick it but it was the only one that was really viable until season 3 I think.
And honestly me just testing alpha wolf. It actually was doing completely fine. Again. You’d probably don’t see it with the type of keys you are running and depending on the type of group you are in. If you’re running alpha wolf with DW, you have uncapped AOE. You are right, elemental wolf is going to perform better with those small pools if you’re doing things around 4 to probably 6 ads. The more ads you have the more value out of wolf puts out. Like when I was doing it on the target dummy I was averaging about 1 million damage a minute on alpha Wolf.
It also gives you protection to get away from RNG. Every time a firewolf comes out and you’re running a type of physical build you are out of damage. It doesn’t matter if it buffs LL or FS because if you’re not spect into the modifiers for those abilities they hit like wet noodles. You have to pray every single time that it is your frost wolf or lightning wolf every single time. Elemental build pretty much any of them work and it’s all a DPS increase.
So there is a purpose of alpha wolf. If you are running a physical build you want to take it.
Physical will have a niche of uncapped AOE. That is where it’s strong. So the bigger the pools tanks do the more beneficial. It is for you to be physical. But if they keep doing small pools, elemental will always be ahead. It’s pretty easy to look at. If they pull a mob of 12, I’m only doing damage to six of them as elemental. As physical. You’re doing damage to all 12.
Bro, I have no idea what you’re talking about. I gave you a actual bill that was physical and said I was doing more damage on six target dummies than I was elemental. I gave you a build that works . It has synergy to the point where I was pulling unholy death night numbers on a mob that I can’t even get that close to on elemental.
So I’ve been on these forums and I’ve seen everything and then it has been made into a meme of what people are asking for physical. They don’t want anything to do with lava lash or anything like that. They literally just want to spam storm strike and have passive WF damage and then use a spender. They want it dumb down that much and they want it to do just as much damage as a more interactive harder build. You can twist it any way you want. That is seriously what the forums constantly was.
Again, blizzard has already said there is going to be terrible builds. If you want to be optimal in a certain game mode, use a optimal build. Don’t build something that is subpar and then complain It’s not good enough. I mean you are literally trying to argue that you need to have ascendence in a timed mythic plus run where AOE damage is key. We have so many AOE spells where we are someone who can constantly every single pool push over 100k which made us very sought after for keys.
I mean after even reading what you’re writing you were asking me and telling me I did not know what I’m talking about and saying I don’t play enhance… I’m the one who seems to understand talents, builds game modes, and understand niches where things are good or bad.
I mean personally, I don’t care if you do want to do average keys and how you want to run. But if you want to push and actually do good damage get out of ascendance and dre. That is not a mythic plus talent. That would seriously be like trying to go do PvP and you’re not taking EB. Any person who PVPs would be coming in and telling you how you’re gimping yourself and you’re making the wrong builds and it’s your fault not anything else’s.
You want to be different. Just use the damn build I gave you . It is a physical build and it does a lot of damage.
FS—wolves—pw—ss—lb—crash—sunder—ice—frost.
By this point you probably have 10 stacks. MS, now you’re pretty much going to be rotating between frost and CL. Personally I would use SS before every frost strike.
And you’re probably going to get three wolves on some of these decent pulls with how much MS you’re going to be swimming in because of hail storm.
Run that build quite a few times in a dungeon and then try to go back to acendance and you will see the difference it makes. The point is to cleave things down as fast as possible which is a huge focus on AOE.
Like I personally don’t know what your priest is, but I also play a shadow priest. We focus on a heavy AOE build which makes us do very little ST besides the initial burst. I mean earlier today in a HOV the first pool combining all three mobs. I did 300k damage overall. Go to the boss fight. I pulled low 40s. At the end balances out.
Enhance with a physical build. That is what it’s mostly going to be. You’re going to have this massive uncapped AOE damage as long as you set everything up correctly, but you’re single. Target is going to drop drastically. But at the end it balances out for overall damage
Yes, I am getting confused with this
Patch 4.0.1 (2010-10-12): Became a prime glyph. Now increases the duration of Flame Shock by 50% (previously increased critical strike damage bonus by 60%).
in WoD it just healed you — in Cata and halfway into MoP it could have indefinite duration
Yes, the majority are used on cooldown. The difference between a enhance shaman that will top parse and one that won’t is the nuance of trying to fit as many EBs in during Wolves for the extra dmg. That means pay attention to when wolves are coming up and if its better to wait the 2-3 seconds to EB during wolves or not.
Furthermore, People do say how good Pwave is for HASTE in AoE situations. Yo uwant to maximize the haste and get as many LBs out to increase your AoE dmg. So yes, people do discuss how pwave modifies your priority. When PWAVe is up and used, you are spending stacks on LB, not EB/CL/LvB.
I was on my phone at the time. Yes, its 3 times in a minute, as opposed to the 6 times we get to use EB.
No, that what you consider dead, I’d be insanely happy if both builds where 5% apart, but like I said it’s not even close the difference in performance. Literally Alpha Wolf is dead and not picked regardless of content.
Elemental Spirits has way to much synergy with our ST and AoE, Alpha wolf is never picked, I wish it was 5% behind Elemental Spirts.
A dead Talent is when it’s just not picked because other talents do insanely better, not just a 5% difference.
Ok in what niche does Alpha Wolf excel in?, in what form of content?, not used in casual world content, not used in m+, raiding or PvP, where’s this niche you speak off?
But PW is used in ST not just AoE every 45 seconds while the haste boost is minor, it literally caused you to send out a maxed MSW Elemental Blast.
Physical build have nothing 
Isn’t this the famous line you say comparing apples to oranges, because it is. Every time I mention other classes ohh it’s apple to oranges even though they literally have the choices I’m asking for Enhance.
I’ve said it several times, Physical build isn’t going to be “Meta”, but it’s not even close to comparison, if it was 5% behind the Elemental build in ST and AoE I definitely wouldn’t complain.
You keep mentioning how it’s basic, but what’s the difference in ability you press?, Both SS, both Ice Strike or Lava Lash, both Feral Spirit, both flame shock and Frost Shock, I’d argue more simple for Elemental build as Lava Lash reapplies it and spreads it basically indefinitely. So you only really flame shock once. Both Elemental Blast, Physical build constantly maintains WF and if you totem project that another two keys both Chain Lightning, Crash Lightning and Sunder, it’s literally the same amount of buttons pressed. And if Ascendence becomes condensed to include DRE, the Physical build has more buttons.
I’ll make it easier for you to understand,
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Elemental Build presses, Stormstrike, Lava Lash, Ice Strike, Sunder, Lightning Bolt, Elemental Blast, Flame Shock, Frost Shock, Chain Lightning, Crash Lightning, Feral Spirits, Primordial Wave. Hailstorm being dominant currently means no Fire Nova, and some WF totem. So that’s 12/13 keys. Depending if they run WF Totem.
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Physical Build presses, Stormstrike, Ice Strike, Sunder, Lightning Bolt, Elemental Blast, Flame Shock, Frost Shock, Chain Lightning, Crash Lightning, Feral Spirits, Doomwinds, and if the changes go through I’ve suggested Ascendence ,WF Totem every 20 seconds might I add, So that’s 12/13 keys. The exact same.
Difference in rotation, Elemental Build isnt spamming WF totem, has Lava Lash and Primordial Wave. Physical build Drops Lava Lash for Doomwinds, as ice Stike cleave from crash lightning can proc WF, and if the changes go through Ascendence over Primordial Wave. But theirs zero compromise on WF Totem for physical build.
Now they press the exact same amount of button, literally the same, theirs zero argument here, yet the performance is completely different. Let’s say Ascendence stays as is and Elemental Build which they should went Hailstorm opted for Fire a nova then it’s 1 key pressed different only if Ascendence stays never picked over DRE.
So where do you get this basic rotation from you keep mentioning?, the only difference is How the dps is done through Elemental (Fire frost Lightning/Nature) or Physical. Elemental build has far more synergy with talents boosting its overall dps then Physical that’s it.
I didn’t include totemic projection for pre placing WF, which then would take it past the amount of keys pressed comparing both builds. So I’m even giving you that leeway.
So what’s a great way to remedy this, SINCE ITS THE SAME AMOUNT OF BUTTONS PRESSED, is Reduce the cd of Doomwinds, make it cleave, allowing it to generate 10 MSW be great since you don’t go primordial wave. Buff Windfury Totem, make Alpha Wolves a competitive choice and a choice node for a physical spender over Elemental Blast that’s it.
Leave Ascendence dead in the water, let DRE be the go to talent, but Doomwinds buff, WF totem buff and a spender is what’s needed first and foremost.
Slightly buff our master on Stormbringer and WF Procs so mastery is still important. This all and should happen, regardless how we both think about Ascendence. Let it be a never picked Talent.