Alpha Wolf/Physical build seriously underperforming

Classes Shaman
1

Alpha Wolf and Physical Build seriously need a buff, Fortified week, you’d think this is where finally Alpha Wolf would shine over Elemental Spirits, Physical Build might be a little more viable?, adds last longer it the perfect scenario it’s Physical Build and Alpha Wolf time to shine. Well you’d be wrong.

The Elemental build is insanely better then Physical build in both ST and AoE, that even a Talent made to perform better in AoE is completely redundant.

Since how strong the Elemental build is, Elemental Spirits vastly performs better in every situation, in all content PvE and PvP.

Seriously who tuned these abilities and thought this is fine.

Suggestion, since how the Physical Build is lacking in every aspect of the game why not have Alpha Wolf, firstly deal significantly more damage, that includes Spirit Bomb, the AoE they deal when casting chain lightning and Crash Lightning, this is a must, no compromise.

I’d also love to see Lightning Bolt added to cause them do Spirit Bomb, so in ST it has some value but it could also apply a debuff Debuff all enemies hit causing physical and lightning abilities to do 10% or so more damage.

So basically it would vastly improve our AoE, synergises with Physical Build which predominantly uses Lightning spells but also gives it a little value in ST.

I’m in no way suggesting a nerf to the Elemental Build or Elemental Spirits, I’m saying bring up Alpha Wolf and Physical Build to be close or just as competitive.

Make it a viable build choice for those not going into Hailstorm, Fire Nova and Primordial wave. We can’t spread flame shock, we don’t proc primordial wave to increase our haste insanely, we need another avenue to do AoE dps, Alpha Wolf should be that answer.

And considering we have literally zero physical spenders, this gives added value slightly to Stormstrike and Lightning Bolt in ST.

Edit; Also why doesn’t Lightning Bolt reduce the cd on Crash Lightning regardless if we AoE or ST we weave in Crash Lightning to buff Stormstrike, it would most definitely help smooth out the rotation, cause occasionally you still get dead zones where if nothing procs you can’t do anything.

Also as a Choice node for Elemental Blast, please add Earthen Spikes, have it visually look like Earthen Rage Ele had back in Shadowlands, make it 3 Earthen Spikes raise from the ground and fly at your Enemy. It can literally do the exact same thing as Elemental Blast, 12 second cd, 2 charges, instant cast when consuming 5 or more MSW, gives a random stat buff literally the same but just turn it’s damage to Physical. Giving us a spender.

I’m not asking to rework the whole tree, I think just a few buffs and choice nodes would seriously put us in a better spot.

2 Likes
2

Physical build is uncapped AOE and can do insane amount of damage but it’s only during that burst window. Physical build relies on the use of long CD for that massive burst. So anything that is a long fight, it’s going to have lower numbers.

It was obvious even before release it was not going to be a viable build. Our mastery for one is going to make elemental more powerful.

In order to make the physical build viable because it is physical damage, they have to buff all the physical damage insanely high. Or they are going to have to buff it every single season to equal elemental damage.

The only thing that could help them equal out is to buff WF since it is pretty pointless to take. They have to buff doom winds and lower the CD

They would have to rework the tree better and actually give SS huge buffs because the damage starting out is low.

Adding urban spike the way you are asking is again completely pointless. Why would we want a different spender that does the exact same thing but does physical damage? No one would take it because it’s not affected by our mastery. Elemental blast will always perform higher like saying and be the only choice.

I mean physical build is more of a leveling and probably normal dungeon build. The faster things die. The more valuable it is. Being realistic, the only way to make it viable is massive buffs to physical damage and reworking the tree. Which would be possible? They just have to take some nodes out and focus on physical damage buffs on the left side. It’s not something that will be an easy fix.

Honestly, in my opinion I don’t even know why people were even talking about the physical build. I know people always were saying “top theory crafters” said it could be viable. I’m sitting here questioning how they got that title. Knowing what our mastery does. At 50% mastery using a elemental build, all my spells and abilities are doing 50% more damage minus SS. Physical bill did not have a chance from the very start. I always saw it as just again leveling or normal dungeons where things don’t last long so that burst puts you at higher damage.

3

I think you’re incorrect, Elemental Blast is insanely strong because of a few talents, Elemental Spirits seriously boosts it and respectively Elemental Weapons, these two talents make it insanely hard hitting. Hence why it’s picked.

Now Feral Spirits baseline increase Physical Damage, and with Alpha Wolf it stays increasing Physical Damage, then we also have Legacy of the frost Witch which further increases physical damage by 25% when you consume a total of 10 MSW charges.

So Earthen Spikes would now Essentially get its boost from these two Talents, adding the same Synergy that Elemental Blast gets from the other two talents.

Like I said the issue with the Physical build is it’s underperforming because theirs no spender, it’s incomplete, we have the Talents already in place that if we do get a spender would make the build more competitive.

I agree it doesn’t effect our mastery, but we still rely on it for SS reset procs, Lightning bolt and Chain Lightning.

Doomwinds I’ve been constantly arguing that it needs its nerf reverted back to 1 minute, 1.5 minute for a buff that lasts a measly 8 seconds is pathetic compared to every other melee CDs. It’s insanely undertuned.

Bring it back to 1 minute and let it last 12-15 seconds, they could also add Windfury Strikes now cleave to 3 Targets, look at Frost DKs, they improved the dead Obliterate build insanely allowing Obliterate cleave to 3 Targets now within Death and Decay which lasts 10 seconds but can be cast every 30 seconds.

Asking for Doomwinds to be 1 minute and last 15 seconds and could also cause WF attacks to cleave 3 targets is still not even close to how good they have it but would insanely help.

It’s funny to see Blizzard fix other classes non viable builds, yet when it comes to Shamans we’ve gotten nothing.

We’ve received no QoL changes, we still need to drop Windfury Totem every trash pull, some fights multiple times, to maximise its use you need to get a weak aura to scream at you everytime you move out of range as movement especially in keys is insanely high.

Feral spirits is still on the GCD, seriously stopping the flow of combat.

Ascendence needs to be baseline, giving us a reliable cd when needed, let DRE stay as is so we can talent into it adding it to Ascendence.

Also with Alpha Wolf debuffing the the enemies improves our dps with Ascendence wind strike, WF attacks and Stormstrike creating more synergy and improving our dps in AoE and ST. Especially if we get a Physical Spender.

If they add Windfury Attacks cleave while Doomwinds is active further helping in AoE as we don’t Hailstorm or Fire Nova.

You really rely on Ice Strike after Crash Lightning to cleave.

If they can improve other classes non viable builds, why can’t they for us? Frost DKs Breath Build was doing fine in m+ but it’s obliterate build wasn’t, so they fixing it, Enhance Shamans Elemental build is doing great, yet the physical build is left as a joke.

1 Like
4

No talents increase it’s damage our mastery does. Getting another spender that is just physical damage just isn’t worth it and makes no sense.

Physical has spenders. It is on CL/EB/LB. That is what enhance shaman is. You’re a master of elements. If you want pure physical play warrior. Classes need to be unique and have different play styles.

Physical will never be on par with elemental unless they rework the tree or change what mastery does. Or just insanely buff all physical damage but then you would see a mix of elemental and physical.

Don’t run it… If you’re guild isn’t worried about mix/max it isn’t a big drop. I haven’t used WF totem all xpac and never even used it in SL. Isn’t a big deal.

Isn’t a bid deal. It just adds to the priority list. Saving 4-5 seconds isn’t going to be a huge damage increase. Just means people will macro it to a bunch of abilities which is dumb.

Rather not. Don’t want to use and time a 3 min CD and I hated having it. Never liked it never will. It’s just a dumb ability and you spam one button.

Point is physical is a brain dead version of enhance. It should be lower than elemental and it is to hard to balance without just buffing physical damage done. It has its niche like other builds with other specs. Why would the make something that is easier and passive damage do more damage or equal damage than something that is interactive?

Every class can cry about some build that isn’t equal and it will never end. I mean honestly the play style that it sounds you want, go play fury.

5

Are you literally saying Elemental Spirits doesn’t increase Elemental Blasts damage?, nor does Elemental Weapons?.. if so then you have no idea at all what you are talking about.

See now you’ve worried me not picking Wind Fury Totem, but then I see your only 2.6k IO and hasn’t even stepped in Mythic, so sort of answers why you have these views as Enhance.

Feral Spirits being off the GCD is a major QoL change, DRE procs, casting Feral spirits literally uses 1/6th of its uptime, considering DRE rarely procs at the right moment and only lasts 6 seconds that’s substantial time and Dps loss.

So you are against having a reliable cd to use when needed? LIKE EVERY OTHER CLASS, that their dps isn’t attached to pure rng.

Yet you say it’s brain dead, so adding Ascendence being baseline making damage less passive and interactive is bad, but then complain saying the Physical side is less interactive? Doesn’t that literally contradict your argument?. Do you read what you write?.

Every class is crying and getting substantial changes cause they leaving feedback, Mistweavers where arguing about Fistweaving being dominant, so now they’ve buffed Mistweaving Build and it’s performing insanely well now giving them 2 builds, Mistweaving and Fistweaving.

Frost DKs are now getting Obliterate build insanely buffed, even removing talents making them baseline so it’s now not just a meme build in higher content or left as a leveling build , Unholy is getting also more changes stepping away from Army of the Dead.

Literally Ret on the PTR, is going to be able to be mid Ranged or melee depending on talents and play style you prefer.

Yet when it comes to Enhance, no… no changes should happen. It’s One way to play and that’s it.

I’ve explained an easy way to incorporate the Physical build and making it viable, won’t change a thing for the Elemental play style, just giving choice node and slight buffs. Which won’t at all effect the way you play.

What seriously shocked me the most was you saying Elemental Spirits doesn’t effect Elemental blast, you in saying this shows you have no idea how shamans are. Literally any Shaman that knows the class will argue with you on that, not just me.

1 Like
6

This seems odd to me. Doom winds and storm strike are thematically elemental and thus shaman-like. They are physical because that’s how they are classified by damage type. Their theme and visuals are very “shaman”.

2 Likes
7

This is spot on IMO.

8

Difference between talent and ability… Again there is no talents that increase it’s damage. EB just hits that hard…

There are people above 3k who dont run it… Your point is moot. But good job trying to use rating as your reason… Also look at sims and realize highest increase is like 7% white damage.

Really isn’t. Maybe to you but overall it isn’t and using wolves on proc of DRE… Why are wolves being saved…

Nope never liked it and our damage is completely fine without it. Why would I want to retune the entire spec over a crap 3 min CD which will hurt us overall? Also vast majority of classes damage is based on RNG procs now. Isn’t even close to just enhance.

No bro have to use your brain a little. Getting ONE ability (ascendence) on a 3 min CD doesn’t make the spec more interactive. You press it once every 3 min then spam one button… Again think more… to balance damage they will need sustained damage to balance burst from 3 min ascendance. I like how we are built now and baseline ascendance will nerf us overall except for boss fights if it is up.

Again… Physical damage vs elemental damage. Mastery buffs elemental damage. Already went over this easy… It is a rework of tree and massive buffs to physical damage it keep it on par. And will have to buff physical every season as stats goes up to keep it balanced… Math…

And enhance is already super strong in mythic. Frost DK wasn’t even on the radar. Apples to oranges. WW was balanced because to much damage was from one ability. We don’t have that issue. Comparing apples to oranges again.

Or you not understanding there is a difference between talents and abilities… And then saying EB is only good because of wolves when it hits like a truck even with wolves on CD.

9

It is but people crying over physical build were they want auto white attacks with WF to do majority damage with spamming SS.

Just go play fury warrior. Rampage to enrage with high passive melee damage.

10

Not sure you know how DRE works but no one ever mentioned once holding it, not once, I mentioned casting it, as DRE insanely reduces the cd.

Exactly my point, literally the a huge iconic spell all the way back from classic is now obsolete and a hassle to use aswell.

Yes and like I mentioned , biggest example being Paladins literally have both, a reliable cd and a rng proc.

Spam one button? It literally resets feral spirits, crash lightning like no tomorrow, just because you sit their and press Wind Strike that’s on you.

I can literally go on and even explain the modifiers that Elemental Spirits give EB when in use, AND Like my example bringing a choice node for a physical spender to use similar modifiers when using Aloha Wolf be similar that seems to go over your head.

11

WF Damage is traditionally what made ENH bursty until Cata when Lava Lash was bursty. Since Legion both have been crap. So technically speaking, WF was the burst for more xpacs than Lava Lash was sooooo…

Asking for WF to be huge damage is not unreasonable.

12

Dude are you serious right now? EB’s damage is increased by mastery AND by talents

  • Fire and Ice (class tree) - 3%
  • Elemental weapons - 5%
  • Elemental Spirits - 20%

This is in addition to the increase in damage provided by mastery.

I’m with Pepino on this, physical side needs a spender similar to Elemental Blast. As pointed out, physical damage would be increased by

  • Feral Sprit - 15%
  • Legacy of the Frost Witch - 25%

There is room in the tree for both specs to exist. No reason why they can’t balance them against each other within reason.

Also, our mastery works for nature damage AND stormbringer/windfury procs. That is an easy tuning knob right there for the physical side…increase the Stormbringer/windfury part of our mastery and leave the nature damage as is.

3 Likes
13

I know how it works. I was taking it you were talking about “now I have to cast wolves since dre proc”.

But all damage spells need to be on a gcd. When they were not think of WoD. Everything was put into one macro which is dumb gameplay.

It’s not a Hassel. The damage is so low from it because how game changed. Again old days melee was your #1 damage ability so it buffed your #1 ability. Now melee is very low so it is buffing your weak attack. Depending how you run, other talents are a higher DPS increase by a good margin.

So your example is 1 class which is being reworked has it? While over 20 others don’t?

Can reset wolves depending on timer. Isn’t going to reset if you have 1 min left in those 6 seconds. Point is it can proc free WS which is spammed. Doesn’t matter you will spam it. You can free CL/LB. Ascendance just needs to go away honestly. Most players don’t like long CD gameplay with your damage based around that one ability so you have to have your damage nerfed so your big CD balances it out.

And I don’t think you still understand why physical will always fail… Mastery buffs elemental damage… Physical gets zero damage buffs as you gear compared to elemental. They will have to constantly buff abilities to make it equal OR rework the class.

Physical gets minor damage increase from agility.

Elemental gets minor damage from agility and big damage from mastery/haste.

14

I didn’t say it was. It people want it back to how it was it needs a huge buff. All I said is when damage changes WF totem has gone to complete crap compared to what it was before.

Even right now when I used WF Weapon, it was like 2% of my damage for an entire run. So for me wasn’t even worth taking WF Weapon.

15

Well guess I did miss 8%. But let’s be realistic, if something was buffed by 8% the community would say that is nothing. It isn’t a big modifier.

Wolves is an ability not talent.

Maybe I should make it easier for people to understand. I already said the tree would need a lot more rework and you would have to buff SS and get rid of most of the talents.

For me my stats weights are like 3.5 mastery and 3.3 haste. With physical they would be dramaticly lower since most damage is from DW and alpha wolf. Nothing gets buffed AS YOU GEAR besides very little from agility.

Even adding a modifier ability won’t keep up as elemental gears. They would either have to buff all physical damage by a wide margin so physical starts out higher and as you get gear elemental catches up.

That is how scaling works. I mean by end of season 2 we might be pushing 80-90 mastery which buffs all damage on elemental side by that much.

They would have to change mastery to drastically increase SS and WF proc to keep up. But then issue is how lame that gameplay would be. Just white attacks damage and spamming SS is what it could turn into.

Physical build was obviously from the start going to lack with how shaman is built.

16

settle for the elemetal build, which is pretty good elemental caster doesn’t have any decent builds ehanced its ok on pve

17

Not necessarily, the foundations are already there, Legacy of the Frost Witch increases physical damage by 25%, Feral Spirits without going into Elemental Spirits is another 15%. Just currently we have no spender to take advantage of it.

Doomwinds nerf revert back to 1 min, last 15 seconds, while active cause Windfury Attacks to cleave to 3 targets would be great help for AoE. Could also give 5 MSW stacks on use to get you rolling for the LotFW proc.

I could argue that LotFW should last longer then 5 seconds.

Alpha Wolf being buffed and applying a debuff would help and make it a competitive choice, increasing physical and Lightning damage to the target/s hit by spirit bomb.

But mastery still has its use in the Physical build, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, crash lightning, sunder, ice strike or lava lash, including flame shock and frost shock still get increased, but more so Stormbringer resetting SS and Stormblast giving it additional 25% nature damage.

The talents are already their, it’s just most are rarely picked cause currently how the Elemental build is performing.

Like you’ve yourself mentioned, you don’t even go Windfury Totem as how bad it is, not to forget a hassle to maintain. It should be buffed, it should be worth investing a point into it and ridiculously casting it every 20 seconds.

I’m not asking to rework the whole tree, just buff what we already have, make Doomwinds worth using, make Windfury Totem worth getting and add a choice node for a physical spender with elemental blast. Although I’d argue Ascendence and Primordial Wave should switch sides as thematically if you go through the right side of the tree you’d definitely be getting primordial wave just a QoL change.

Like I said the foundations are their, it’s clear they have thought of this physical build but it hasn’t been followed through properly, needs tuning, just like Elemental with the Lightning build, everything is in place just vastly underperforming then the lava burst build.

I’m in no way trying to take away the Elemental build from you, people love it, they should stay and play how they prefer, I’m asking to bring the Physical build up to compete. It literally have zero effect on how you’ll play.

1 Like
18

my guy, do you even play shaman?

It’s a talent.

So is turning your feral spirits into elementals to give you an additional 20%. It shares the talent space with Alpha Wolf.

So no, not 8%. 28%.

And just so you don’t get it twisted and try to say ‘Well it used to be an ability’…here is the first ever incarnation of feral spirit…as a talent…in wotlk

And again, Blizzard can adjust the stormbringer/windfury part of our mastery to keep it attractive for both specs.

5 Likes
19

Thank you, I kept trying to explain this to him, but he just kept saying no, Elemental Blast just hits hard as his rebuttal.

20

He is correct about it benefitting from mastery. But it also gets propped up by talents.

And yes, given our current mastery, which prioritizes fire, frost and nature dmg higher than windfury/stormbringer procs — the elemental side of the tree will scale better.

But they can just tune the stormbringer/windfury procs to bring the physical side up to match. Mastery will still be relevant to each build.

2 Likes