Alliance, would you forgive the Horde?

Community General Discussion
141

The best that can be said of Greymane fight against the evil leader of the horde, is that Genn was treating the interests of Gilneas while Syl, was in your personal quest for immortality, rather than lead the horde, to fight against the legion

I’m sorry you cling desperately to it, in an attempt of useless to blame on the victim which has reasons to do justice

Even after Siege of Orgrimmar, there was no Treaty of peace
Alliance and Horde a “truce” in Ashram, which was short-lived and not really started a war after the end of WOD
we had was a “truce” , which was abandoned after the apparent betrayal of Syl in Broken Shore

Just stop using your character from the alliance and talk using your main horde
You use that character of the Alliance, does not make his words sound real

If there was a peace treaty, broken by Greymane, when he prevented Sylvannus to consummate her Pact with Helya and enslave the leader of Valkyr, why she agreed to meet Anduin for the realization of meeting between people who had relatives among the Alliance and the Forsaken?

The same Genn who beat Syl, was in the collective meeting!
The meeting occurs after the end of Legion.

Anduin speak in a mail, sent to Lich Queen, though they are not at peace with the Alliance, they also are not at war

If there was a peace treaty between ally and horde, broken by Genn, she had no reason to meet a request by the leader of the faction that betrayed this supposed peace treaty

She just remembered this later? That convenience
Peace treaties also negotiate compensation agreements for damages and returns the occupied territories

The Alliance paid off the horde for something?
The horde returned some territory the Alliance?
Gilneas? Arathi? No!

Syl started this mess, because until then, there was no reason to start this war, for something that occurred in Broken Shore

Syl started this war, for power that the azerite could give her

What Genn did, occurs from Broken Front and Wrath Gate!
Both culminated in the attack on Undiecity, by Varian but still not resulted in open war between the Alliance and the horde

The wars between factions, occur for territorial expansion the Horde and Alliance

Never for fighting isolated troops

Just to remember
Sylvannas started war

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142

Except Arthas was a part of the Alliance of Lordaeron, which is an entirely different Alliance. Even that Alliance was more or less dismantled by the time of the plague, with member nations abandoning it after the threat of the orcs had been gone. Not to mention Arthas wasn’t a leader of ANY of the member nations while Sylvanas is the leader of the entirety of the Horde.

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143

Lore shows that both sides more or less overlook this incident and that the treaty was acknowledged to be in effect by both sides even after the event occurred. There was no war until the Horde marched into Ashenvale.

Edit: I’m going to rephrase “Lore states” to “Lore shows” because really it isn’t exactly clearly and explicitly stated.

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144

Here’s a simple timeline since you somehow don’t get it.

1- Peace treaty happens since Alliance and Horde leadership realize they need to put aside their many issues with each other to face the Legion

2- Genn breaks that treaty by attempting to assassinate the warchief, thus starting the war

That’s how it happened, being Alliance doesn’t change that.

All the other nonsense you made up on the spot doesn’t matter, because it’s just that- irrelevant. Peace treaties can have compensation? Sure, they can… but they don’t have to. Wrath gate had nothing to do with Genn, he wasn’t even in the Alliance.

It’s like you’ve taken a very basic knowledge of the game’s stories, jumbled them together without regard to context or timing, and came up with something that sounds cool in your mind.

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145

You’re also making a lot of assumptions about the story. You claim Genn caused the treaty to be null and void, but there is not a single place this is said. In fact this attack is literally never mentioned again after it occurs. There is nothing to say the treaty was viewed as broken by either side.

On the other hand, content that takes place after Genn’s attack show that the treaty is still in effect. In fact Horde characters repeatedly refer to the invasion of Ashenvale as a “pre-emptive strike”. If the treaty was null and void, and the attack was in retaliation, then that characterization wouldn’t be accurate. There is a lot to show the treaty was viewed as still in effect by both sides.

Edit: To my point, read A Good War if you haven’t. Saurfang and Sylvanas very clearly talk in terms of the Alliance and the Horde being in a temporary peace.

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146

That Blizz ignores parts of the story at a whim while focusing heavily on parts of the story that literally are not in the game or ever mentioned in the game is a flaw in their storytelling, not something to celebrate.

If Blizz is really going with the ‘Alliance attacking the Horde during a treaty doesn’t break it, but Horde attacking Alliance later on does’- then there’s really no point in arguing, since Blizz has written a story where nothing anyone ever does matters- Alliance is default good, Horde is default evil.

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147

I’d send em all back to Afric-- I mean-- Nagrand!

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If they burn all the undead and exile the blood elves and offer free barbecues every 3rd Friday of the month.

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No she didnt it was Genn Greymane deciding to attack us in Stormheim. He is to blame. And before you start saying she sounded the retreat on the Broken Shore. That was Vol’jin giving the command. Both Horde and Alliance wouldve been overrun if it wasnt for that retreat. The Horde wouldve fallen and the Alliance wouldve been closed in from the rear. If it wasnt for thar retreat the Alliance wouldve never seen it comming either.

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150

As if the current writing team would allow the Alliance to have an actual victory.

It’ll end with a truce being made to deal with N’zoth and his armies and then the idiots will start killing each other again until the next immediate world-ending threat occurs.

Man, I wish I had the choice to do stuff for Khadgar, seeing’s how he seems to be one of the few characters actively looking for a solution to the conundrum of Sargeras’s sword being firmly planted in Silithus.

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He was a human and a product of the human government and society. If you can question Horde society and Government because of its bad results you can question human ones.

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As will the Horde. Your point is?

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Yes The story of Genn and Gilneas is not related to something that took place in ICC
I’m glad you know this!

But truce fall easily

Too bad you might think that any peace treaty, that didn’t involve the return of Gilneas might be recognized by Genn or imposed on him by Anduin, without taking into account the interests of all
A treaty that does not seek ways of bringing an end to the confrontation of the parties involved, it is not a treatise stay.

Greymane never would agree to a treaty that it failed to take into account the end of the siege of Gilneas by forsaken

If there was really a peace treaty, that there were broken, Greymane Anduin and the other leaders of the Alliance the recriminariam

There was never any peace treaty, even if you talk about a as something real, quoted in any place
There was a truce

But you still haven’t answered, why Syl agreed to the meeting between alliance forsakene in Arathi!
if there was a peace treaty, which has been broken by Greymane, why Syl attended a meeting requested by Alliance, after the end of Legion and before the beginning of BfA?

THIS!!

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You know more about in-game events than those who are writing history right now! This seems legitimate!

Hazzycostas said that who started it was Horde! And all the cinematics, advertisements say that it was the horde to start and the reason why the horde carried out the attack!
It was not because of Greymane in Broken Shore! nor an imaginary peace treaty.
It was to ensure control of Azerite and eliminate the presence of the Kalimdor alliance.

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155

Read my post a couple above yours. Genn’s attack in Stormheim is absolutely a non factor in this war. It is never mentioned once by either side as justification and even the Horde characterise the war as one they will be starting.

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156

The people of Lordaeron are now, in vast majortiy, in the Horde. What you’re saying is equivalent to blaming the Darkspear for the actions of the Gurubashi. “But they’re both jungle trolls” right? No, they’re different groups who at one time were allied. Lordaeron was never in the modern Alliance, and Arthas was a member of Lordaeron.

People blame the Horde for past actions because they are, in many cases, the same people and groups. The orcs in the Horde, in general, are the same orcs who chose to dink demon blood and sacked Stormwind. They’re the same dragonmaw that imprisoned and force bred Alexstrasza. You don’t see a majority of people blaming Blood Elves for the actions of Kael’thas on Outland or even blaming the Forsaken for Putress/Varimathras.

Edit: I’d like to add the entire reason in lore for why Sylvanas and Anduin both accept her assassination of Calia menethil is BECAUSE she is a Lordaeron citizen which makes her NOT a member of the Alliance. That’s literally the core point.

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157

The alliance destroyed my home in brill. I do not want peace.

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158

The point is about claims of what kind of leaders each side produces an what that means for Azeroth. The Kingdom of Lordaeron may not exist, but its system of producing leaders surely does.

It is not a questions of “blame”. But you are right that you can’t blame one group for the actions of another. Presumably the next time an Alliance poster says the Alliance has a right to blame the modern Horde for the actions of those Orcs enslaved by the Legion you will speak up.

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My night elves say no. I don’t think they would forgive the alliance for forgiving the horde either.

My undead, trolls and orcs will always want to kill the blues though, war or peace…

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The system of selecting a leader? So blame for Arthas is based on who has a Monarchy? So tauren are responsible for Arthas? Zandalari as well?

And I already addressed the Orc thing. Those very same Orcs are still in the Horde today, they still make up the largest most influential group of the horde. You can 100% blame them for the things they themselves did in their own past.

On the other hand a majority of Lordaeron citizens are now the Forsaken, not many exist within the modern Alliance. So if anyone inherits the blame for Arthas it would be the Forsaken themselves.

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