It does happen.
Most alliance have to be playing and the horde have really really be bad at pvp.
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Do a war game get alliance side u will see.
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They demand changes and fixes instead of adjusting their strategy. They continue to do the same thing over and over again while getting the same results.
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Im living it right now and its roughly even. And of the games the Horde do win, Alliance is right behind us on killing the boss, so the ending bonus honor is usually something really close too
Says the guy whoâs whole class is /macro tab /macro tab /macro tab
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The thing with AV is this for Ally, itâs about rep. They could careless if they win or lose. AV weekend just makes it better, so they actually DO try when itâs doubled, outside of that, could be staring at a wall and not care.
This has been a player moral issue since, well, the start. Premades through Discords, gave Horde an EZ win because the premades for ally didnât get the amount of players they wanted. Then came the map complaints as well as res limitations, which are both justifiable compared to horde.
For me currently, AV is a coin toss on itâs weekend. Wish it was like that all the time.
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You cannot do wargames in AV.
Hmm, where are all those posters from the âBlizzard has to change AVâ thread? Suddenly very silent.
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People donât usually like to admit that theyâre wrongâŚ
Back on topic though,
This statement is pretty undeniable. Any perceived advantage is really miniscule and almost non-existent.
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I posted about a loss yesterday after it happened and admitted that we got our butt kicked and no one believed me hahahaaaa.
/shrug If you get enough motivated people who know what theyre doing good things can happen.
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Yes a 99% win rate means horde do lose occasionally, glad you figured that out.
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The alliance are actually competing this weekend and theyve noticed a difference in their win rates. What a surprising development, who woulda thought winning took a team effort.
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I think AV weekend shows what the win/loss rate could be if the alliance tried their best all the time, sure.
I highly doubt the winrate is 50/50. I think itâs closer to 70/30.
The map imbalance doesnât make it impossible to win, and having a higher winrate on AV weekends doesnât disprove the imbalance. But given two equally trying/geared/skilled teams, horde will win more often than 50/50.
70/30 is obviously loads better than the usual 99/1, and it shows getting motivated alliance is a huge problem, but itâs still not close to balanced.
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He is not so good in math.
He lost AV that should say it all.
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You also have to consider the âqualityâ of the horde wins/alliance losses too. So alliance losses/horde wins are still very competitive even though the screen might say âHorde Winsâ. The difference in honor is something like 500 difference and the alliance are usually 1-2 warmaster pulls behind the horde.
Regardless, the difference really is the players. I would definately put it somewhere around 60-40 and even 70-30, but definately not past that. To get a closer winrate to 50-50, the alliance players really do need to try and win more often so they can find a strat through trial and error. In the same way that Horde were losing 99-1 but then as horde started to figure out the map through trial and error, this is the strat that they came up with and it worked.
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No, I really donât. A loss is a loss is a loss and a win is a win. Obviously more honor is better, but when discussing winrates, it really doesnât matter how close it was.
And Iâm sure thereâs a lot of games the alliance barely won by, too. So they may cancel out to some degree.
When discussing win/loss rates, you donât qualify it more than that because it skews the data. If horde kills Vann while we have 2 warmasters left, it means they were roughly 5 minutes ahead as far as the race goes.
I agree that players are one of the chief problems, but they arenât the only problem and the map does favor horde. Heck, it probably covers that 5 minute advantage quite nicely.
To be clear, I think the map is worth about a 15~% advantage. Not huge, most of it is likely player apathy. But not non-existant or balanced.
We are discussing win rates, but thatâs in the broader context of whether or not the map is imbalanced. IF the alliance losses are that close, then can you really say its the map thatâs imbalanced? At that point, youâd be splitting hairs and we can nitpick anything and just call it âmap imbalanceâ.
If the alliance can get that close with just simply trying without an established strategy, then the win rate can easily even out once the alliance actually figure out a meta.
Therefore, not much of a map imbalance
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I played 8 games yesterday and won 1. We had 3 that were close, as in alliance had hard capped at least 1 GY south of IWB choke and were at least soft capping others. Itâs better on AV weekend but itâs still not very good. I notice you said you won â3 games out of your last 6â. What was your actual win rate counting all of your games?
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Not really? Getting close isnât the same thing as winning, nor does it prove anything.
I mean this is the problem with trying to solve using winrates in the first place. They donât prove anything by themselves.
Alliance can win AV, but generally speaking itâs less likely, thatâs the data winrates tell us. Thatâs useful data, but doesnât prove or disprove the map is the reason because it doesnât go into how or why the game was won. Without that context, the numbers are pretty meaningless. Were there too many Alliance AFK? Was there a large portion of horde not pushing objectives? We donât and canât know from winrates alone.
What would be more useful data is what does the horde have to do to win vs what does the alliance have to do to win, and does the way the map is situated make those win conditions easier/more difficult to achieve?
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Well, then youâre kind of looking at the trees before the forest (or whatever the saying is). Win rates essentially offer one piece of data in the larger context. However, at the end of the day, the true things that matter are honor and rep. And BG outcomes arenât all-or-nothing; even if you lose, you can tell how well a team did based on the HPH. So yes, âGetting closeâ DOES count for something. In fact, it accounts for everything. No alliance player will be happy if they won but only got 1k bonus honor and a handful of rep despite winning just like how no Horde likes to get into a game thatâs almost done just for a 2000 honor despite winning. And we dont get gear based on win rates; we get gear based on rep/honor
Essentially, what Im saying is that you should look at winrates PLUS honor/rep/other pieces of data (as itâs more data and more data = good), and provides better context than just win rate. Since weâre trying to âquantifyâ the effects of map vs players afterall
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