Sorry, my bad. Problem i see is comparing apples to oranges. Horde have a great forward defense especially when rez is at ibgy. Let them get up to shgy cap and spgy cap and then defend the base with hunters and mages and a healer if you can afford it. Archers will help a ton. Send troops south leave ib gy and cap both towers by ibgy with 7ish people and rest to fwgy and sit til they cap while 2 stealth go into the base and hit the towers there fast. Make the horde figure out what to do and choose between what to keep. Chances are the base will be the easiest. Meet up at fwgy leave 5 there rest to base. The stealth should be still messing with towers keeping them busy while u bum rush in. All your defense is for is to slow them down on that bridge and range them to death. Use the map adantages you have and ignore the ones we have.
Iâm glad that you restored a thread to keep the meme dream alive of people arguing about AV success rates.
This matters not one lick when the Alliance advantages arenât factors in any win condition when we canât take a single forward base. If we go for SFGY, Horde beat us to the punch and any Alliance deaths at SFGY send us back to the Aid Station, and Horde have an easier time slamming into SHGY. If we go for IBGY and manage to soft-cap it, Horde rez 20-at-a-time at their cave very close by, while Ally support can only come for SHGY or SFGY 10-at-a-time. If Horde soft-cap SHGY, weâre back at SPGY much further away.
This is why the only way to beat Horde consistently is for the following to be true:
- Ally must be vastly superior in play and power than Horde
- Horde must ignore all defense and muck-around on offense to give Ally plenty of time to do things
The Ally âchokepointâ actually only harms Ally. Any deaths on or near the bridge in an attempt to retake SPGY send us to our cave BEHIND you, rather than to our Aid Station. Since we have to drop down and Ally are rezzing in split directions, the map literally works against us. The archers arenât some grand deterrent, especially since Ally hemmed in at the bridge just give Horde open season to summon and push in.
Without the ability for Alliance to consistently push past SHGY/SFGY, any game is pure attrition, hoping that Horde eventually give it up and let Alliance through.
Horde have what seems less than a 50% win in pug ABâs but want to gloat about being the better faction at bgs cuz you get the mega imbalanced end of Classic AV map everyone knew was trash and no private servers used for a reason. You just keep thinking the horde cave half way up the map has nothing to do with your win rate LOL
15 years ago the horde knew a turtle gave them a significant advantage, the alliance knew this as well there is nothing knew here. The meta was the race because horde had fast queues, it really is that simple.
First off, congrats.
Second, the AV map is designed to be much more challenging for Alliance to win, but it is winnable. From what Iâve seen, the Alliance raid needs to be split into three groups: 1 group goes to SHGY and defends, and 2 groups go to SFGY to cap it and split up, some staying to defend and others rushing IBGY to cap and defend. From there, they work their way south, capping and defending.
It usually takes awhile, and Iâve seen games where they were completely successful with this strat and it was still close because Horde was all the way north too. There is nowhere near as much coordination needed for Horde, which is why they tend to win more.
who said take??? you merely hold them on the bridge, seen it done tons of time at shgy with traps and mages holding it. If our forces are mostly at spgy, which they will be, then the major portion of your forces should be heading south from your base where u can jump down.
You must not have gotten the memo, so I will clear it up for you.
Apparently we are capable of both holding SPGY with the majority of our forces, while simultaneously 100% blocking IWB, and SF, and IBGY choke, and FWGY, as well as defending our base. All by virtue of âmapâ.
If alliance takes anything south the horde will go back to retake it. If a bunch of alliance get south then a bunch of horde will do similarly.
The best chance for alliance turtling the bridge would be to organize a very large group, skip everything, take the relief hut without taking anything else, and hold it until it caps. All while defending the bridge too.
Can it be done? Sure but it takes a lot of coordination for a PUG. Chances are you wonât get a bunch to go south and, even if you do, as you go south someone will take other objectives. Thus the horde will get alerted and will recall. Now youâre back at the start of the game, trying to break past a horde turtle at one of their choke points.
And this all hinges on alliance not dying at SPGY and getting sent to the cave. If that happens the bridge defense wonât happen at all.
So itâs a tall order to pushed back all the way to the bridge THEN, out of the blue, get organized enough to turn it around completely. Especially since ending the game at that point and getting another one in a few minutes is an option. Itâs just not likely that a bridge turtle is going to turn into a win.
I love the excuse of the bridge being âworthlessâ because I isnât likely to turn into a win.
20 alliance can hold off 40 horde with that bridge.
That means alliance can send 20 people down south to get objectives while the other 20 hold off the horde.
The offense alliance can
Interrupt ice daddy summon
Soft cap every tower and GY in the south and force horde to back track or try for the final push, most horde will not go back for defending on that final push being in sight.
The reason the bridge does nothing for the alliance is because they chose not to use it.
Hordes strongest defending position is IBGY
Alliance strongest defending position is the bridge and itâs about twice as effective as IBGY when used right.
Horde have more offensive power early on because of this. But with the only win condition being kill the final boss it evens out.
If we had reinforcement mechanics, then yes the map would heavily favor the horde with itâs current design. But with how things are now? The only thing of the map favoring the horde is GY selection on death being scuffed for alliance in some spots.
If a major portion of our forces head south, they fail. Assuming 30+ Alliance go south, any death by even just a handful of defending Horde will send them back to the Alliance Cave, not to Aid Station, which is where the offensive positioned Horde already are. The further south the Alliance push to take their first offensive GY, the longer you give the offensive Horde to just take Aid Station. Further, any defending Horde that do go back to help have the Horde Cave or nearby Horde controlled GY to bolster the defense.
Youâre suggesting that Alliance mount its big assault once Horde have hemmed them into their own base and hope that Alliance can just zerg THE ENTIRE LENGTH OF THE MAP WITH NO GRAVEYARD SUPPORT OF ANY KIND faster than the Horde can overcome the remaining defenders and kill Vann with the SPGY for reinforcement.
Simply put: this is a failed strategy unless the Horde are significantly worse players than the Alliance and simply never send anyone to defend or push past SPGY. If Alliance have to rely upon Horde lobotomizing themselves to win⌠the problem isnât with strategy, but with the map.
I didnât realize alliance couldnât cast resurrection spells to Rez the few deaths they might get.
Hmmm
Also donât send 30, send 20.
20 alliance can hold off 40 horde when using the bridge properly.
Alliance not playing properly is not a map issue
One of my guildies made a Mana/5 set purely for dispell and Rez spam in AV pvp, last I checked with him he had a 125/5 Mana regen set. He uses it in raids for dispell fights as well.
Nor apparently can they manage to stealth cap anything south without the majority of their team with the druid/rogue. There seems to be nothing achievable by alliance without the entire raid force in a death blob.
And yet they have the nads to call horde meta âzugzugâ.
Muh cave tho
lmao.
Now that is the epytome of a delusional beign.
Thank you kind sir.
What horde is retarded enough to use the bridge if you can jump into the bunkers? Every hrode knows how to get into the south bunker nowadays.
Ya, alliance can win if horde never take badges and use the most retarded strat avaiable, incredible all you need is the enemy to lobotomize themselves.
And horde will by any means at any cost try to defend the towers in small groups too? Ya alliance can win if people are extremely dumb.
Great advantage.
FYI that was patched along with getting around IWB from the side of the building.
Those backdoors were fixed.
And as for the rogues/druids if 2 players draw 5+ back to recap the soft caps that creates a numbers advantage for your team in other areas of the map, and as a rogue/druid you simply stealth and let a group of 5 recap, then you spin the flag again as they leave. But wait thereâs more!
Even your warriors can use this distraction strategy if they are a NE because of shadow meld. And the one real counter to this? Itâs the human racial which horde donât get. Alliance racials are better for guerrilla war far, horde is better in a straight forward fight. To bad most alliance donât play to their strength in AV because they have a good portion of their team that has already given up, before the match even starts.
Oh my, Heaven forbid!
So let me get this straight. Are alliance not doing things because the other team in the bg might try to stop them? Is that what I am reading?
Been playing on alliance recently and Iâve noticed that whenever people talk about AV theyâre almost always bragging about how they just go afk and let horde win.