So I am going to dip my toes in here after reading the …entire… thread
Firstly, the posting character is for my pve realm and guild, I am a WrA veteran, and once a Duskwood denizen. Sooo… yeah.
Okay, the topic of Alliance RP interests me greatly because I miss it. At least on WrA I miss it. MG is currently where most of my RP characters are because, basically, that is where the players are. Now if we could get some activity on WrA that was consistant, or at least semi-regular that could change.
There has been several attempts by both me and my former spouse to get involved in role play on WrA. On the most recent attempt the only place where “public” RP was happening was in Duskwood. Patrols with Thomas, or small group based events, even just being social in the inn in Darkshire. What we found was a real clique environment. The folks that RP there together were not very welcoming, and once we did get some sort of acknowledgement from the “locals” we were swiftly dismissed and pretty much ignored. Even when we tried to get involved in the RP we were dismissed. One person actually suggested we take our RP elsewhere in a private message, because they were an exclusive group. Thomas was the only person who was actually welcoming, and two people who were with them. And now the place is a graveyard. No pun intended.
So, since that is the hub, and there didn’t seem to be much going on elsewhere, why stay and be abused. That is why I haven’t returned. The biggest thing that needs to be fixed on WrA is the players in my opinion. I am sure my experience doesn’t blanket the entire playerbase on WrA or even in Duskwood, and I am not saying it should. I am saying for a few weeks, the group that was there didn’t treat us very well.
So how are new or returning player supposed to find a home on WrA if the players treat newcomers like dirt.
I know there were a few times in Duskwood where I sat an unknown alt in a corner and no one bothered approaching. And sometimes the Duskwood plots sped by, so if I was there one night and started to participate, before I could get my guild or anyone else involved - poof - it was over. But that wasn’t a fault of anyone particularly and no one tried to shoo me away.
That’s part of why I’m looking at doing the server plot. I wanted to post it up publicly with a schedule, so people know it exists, when it’s starting, how it’s going and when it ends. When The Haunting of Hallow’s End is over, I have possible plots for 2 more. The idea might be to hold something quarterly, but not on any kind of set schedule.
As far as the players…hmm. I don’t have a good answer for that. Generally if someone ticks me off (and being told to leave would tick me off), I make sure I don’t do what they want. That’s probably left over from my years of being a trade troll.
If you ever want to try heading back to Duskwood or try getting involved in the server plot, hmu and I’ll see about scheduling something
Just commenting on the Duskwood being a graveyard right now…
It’s a new expansion, people are RPing in the new expansion because it’s new and exciting (and let’s be honest, they gave us some great places to RP in this expansion). While my guild usually RPs in Suramar, we are all in the Isle of Dorn right now and that is where we’re doing our RP interactions with other guilds, etc. We’ll continue to be in Dorn for a few more months as well. Also I think a lot of the walk up RP from Duskwood is in Mereldar enjoying that excellent little town atm. That’s just kinda how it goes when new expansions come out especially when Blizz gives us so many new buildings and spaces to use in the new expansion.
This is part of it. There’s quite the overlap between people who frequented Duskwood throughout Dragonflight and folks roleplaying in Mereldar right now. Part of it is friends inviting friends but the other is apart from Thomas, there are a few other recurring characters in Duskwood who helped make it a consistent hub and accessible RP scene. Though their names were rarely mentioned outside RP, they’d often help kick off a crowd. When some of those folks took a break from Duskwood or (more recently) started up RP in a new town, part of the inclusive Duskwood crowd went with it — and they generally were the people who were the most welcoming. It wasn’t intentional or due to animosity, it was just the last season of Dragonflight so game interest was lower and many folks drop off WoW during the summer.
I think that’s where you fell through the cracks, Cymon. If that was around the time you came, I’m sorry about that. When people refer to Duskwood with fond memories, we’re usually referring to the welcoming time period as opposed to the more private groups that may have continued on when folks went on break.
I walked into Duskwood on a whim two years ago and thanks to the first night’s experience, it became my RP home for a little while. I’m sorry our experiences differed so much.
Briefly coming back for a moment and reading through a decent chunk of the replies.
It seems like everyone is so close to one of the major issues, but its sort of bouncing between the finish line. The root of the problem that keeps persisting through the thread is multiple people have different experiences in two (roughly associated) broad camps; RP is either welcoming and available, or your not part of the ‘in crowd’ and your options are nearly null.
This is the challenge and root of part of the problem, it’s easy to say “well try this instead”, but your asking people to jump through multiple hoops and fundamentally change how they are to do so. The issue that WrA has for this is that there is an accessible alternative of MG, there’s no way to not have that as part of the conversation.
Both can offer great experiences in their own way, and it’s perfectly fine to have two distinctly different environments. However, the original problem statement posed with enabling Alliance RP is not solved by simply accepting the problem.
tl;dr: It’s fantastic that there are great experiences being had on Alliance RP, but if you want to solve the problem (using for simplicity, could very well just be accepted as not a problem) you have to recognize those good experiences don’t matter if a measurable part of the population is saying they aren’t having that.
Slight change of topic from Duskwood (sorry this is getting lengthy and I started it before the Maladonir’s comment, so I’ll try to back up and read that and reply at the bottom).
So…there was an event on MG last night. One of my guildies wanted to go, so I hopped on MG Kirsy and attended (we were also supposed to go to the tavern in WrA Pandaria beforehand, but something came up for my guildie and I stood around waiting for them until it was too late and missed it).
So we went to the MG event. And apparently so did several other WrA RPers. There were a lot of people there. From WrA. Enough to field a small event on our server.
The things I see wrong with this scenario (and RPers hunting for events isn’t one of them):
Advertising. If we’re going to grow RP on WrA, we absolutely have to advertise events that are happening here. Posting only on Discord isn’t enough. Things need to be cross-posted here on the forums and other places, bumped and talked up until we get RPers to notice that WrA has active RP and we’re planning things. Trade chat. Reddit. Wherever people are talking about WoW RP.
Kind of expanding on the first point. I know a lot of RPers have Trade Chat turned off - it can be awful and ugly. But people in Trade just outright ignore RP questions or tell new and returning RPers that the realm is dead, go away. Advertising in Trade should help stop some of that. Or being around to chat up other RPers, especially when a conversation is already going on.
Cross-server events. We need to be making more of those and advertising over on MG (and maybe other RP servers). We already do some - let’s do more. If you can offer an anchor for your event, please consider doing so and stating it. There are people who want to come back to WrA but have already moved and established their characters in guilds over there. Inviting them back gives them a chance to come home, and gives our events a population boost and some word of mouth advertising.
Different kinds of events. Maybe we need to start looking at different events than the ones we run on the regular. What’s being a successful draw for MG that we could do something similar here?
Guild inter-cooperation? I’m having a hard time putting a name to this one, but basically it’s building a network of RP guilds who: talk to each other, invite to each other’s events, set up and plan joint events, etc. It’s difficult to host a server event, but if you have 5 people and I have 5 people and we’re all free on Sunday afternoon…see where I’m going with that? I know some guilds are friends with another guild. Maybe we need to expand that, especially for smaller guilds or ones with less activity.
And that leads us to inviting non-guildies to your events. I used to do this a lot. There are people who want to see what your RP looks like before they’ll commit. Or they don’t want to be part of a guild, but the want RP. Or they can only attend once a month and they’re afraid that if they don’t show up more than that, they shouldn’t bother. If your guild is actively recruiting, perhaps consider bumping your forum advertisement to invite new people to guild happenings. I used to keep a list and would add non-guildies to calendar invites.
And that leads into a reply to Maladonir - kind of:
Destroying cliques. It’s harder for any single person to join a walk up group they don’t know than it is for anyone in that group to ICly acknowledge the presence of someone new. We need to be more proactive with lone RPers walking about, standing like a wallflower, or hovering nearby. I know, I know, it’s not your responsibility. Except…if we want to grow RP, we have to start on several fronts and this one is important. If you’re in a tavern with your group of friendos and there’s one lone worgen in the corner who has been standing there for 20 minutes, hasn’t gone afk and actually has a filled out TRP - unless you’re in the absolute middle of a private plot, for the love of all that’s WoW, please talk or emote to them. And if you can’t because your plot is so private (even though you’re doing it in public), then whisper them and tell them nice transmog, or cool TRP or just anything positive so they don’t feel completely ignored. And if you can’t RP with them right then, chat with them a little and see what they’re looking for. Could be a guild. Could be just checking our RP scene. Could be they’re scouting to see if they want to move their entire guild here. I know it sucks to get out of your comfort zone - a lot of people aren’t comfortable just messaging someone. But on days when you have enough spoons, you could be making someone’s RP experience a lot brighter.
And the flip side to that. If you’re wallflowering at an event and you want to join in, don’t be afraid to whisper someone and ask. And if someone tells you to literally go away because you’re not welcome to their “exclusive” RP, please make note of the guild and the player name and either report them to their GM, put them on ignore or move on to whisper someone not in their little clique. NO area in WrA is owned by any one group and you’re well within your rights to be anywhere on the map. If someone in my guild ever did this (which I’m 99% certain it won’t ever be), I’d want to know. Also, if you see Kirsy or Larisi online when this is happening, please whisper me and I’ll meet you wherever you’re being told you can’t be. And we’ll be there and RP however much you want. Right next to them and their exclusivity.
I will add in the specific instance of Duskwood I was referring to was after two years of being part of a scene that was dynamic, inclusive, and welcoming to newcomers (I was absolutely an outsider on Day 1 as a transfer and welcomed to the fold on a good night). The downside is we don’t have quite enough of said inclusive folks consistently to keep up that sort of effort. We did for a while in Dragonflight, which is why Duskwood experienced another great cycle of hub RP, but once the welcomers were away for a bit, it quickly became cliquey. Calling out the problem is part one of the solution, but I stop short at suggesting welcomers stay chained to their computers in one zone to offer a more consistent experience. Instead, we need more folks to understand that’s the phenomena that’s going on, step up to the plate, and help distribute the load. We also need to get the word out that WrA-A is not an MG-A competitor but an MG-A alternative with far more real estate, roleplay opportunity, and a more active Hordeside to bounce off with.
I remember having these exact conversations on my old server and the phrase “it’s an RP server, not an RP service” being bandied about. While it sums up the issue in a brutish way, it does get to the heart of WrA-A: We either don’t have the sustained population to keep up such consistent efforts OR we still do, but we need to talk about our obstacles openly and honestly so more folks can recognize what’s needed and meet the moment. Right now, we’re the latter and one of the best things we can do is get in-game RP started, try to network as best you can to get the word out to WrA and elsewhere, and emphasize it’s a group vs. singular effort so no it does not rely on a singular person or group of people who can get burned out.
For a little while now, we’ve had a smaller but proactive sliver of WrA-A disproportionally burdened with the extra weight of keeping up consistent public scenes. They’re not the problem, the problem is we need more of them. It sucks to have to say bluntly that we need more starters than followers and currently the scale is unbalanced because again, I remember this conversation all too well from my previous server. Whether the starters come here from WrA or other servers doesn’t matter, what matters is we create and perpetuate a cycle that becomes self-sustaining instead of being tied to the labor of a few.
Also going to take a moment to plug this, as this is an ongoing effort to enjoy some walk-up RP in Mereldar (cross-faction friendly). It doesn’t need to start with me, this thread can be bumped any time someone kicks off anything. We’ve already brought in folks from different servers who’ve had fun, right now we could use more traction via word-of-mouth. City Trade chat was talking about this the other day (which is awesome, thank you), let’s keep it going:
Before anything else, I just would say honestly, the sentiment that’s shown through this thread is you both very clearly care. You both very clearly want this to be better. Anything that I’ve said isn’t directed at a lack of trying, heck I think the fact of the forums alone is very clear. I’d say it in-game but idk if whispers are free or mail is free, so thank you both for what your doing.
There’s still a gray area in saying it, so I’ll dance around that a lot of my RP experience had been still in the WoW setting, just not having to pay the subscription to Blizz to enjoy the setting. I won’t go more in-depth than that to avoid anything or any concerns. There was still times on retail with it of guilds and all, but as time got more limited and RP became the sole focus… Yeah.
A tough pill to swallow as I went from being a member to a leader to running in that capacity was that no matter how much I cared, I couldn’t make others care in the same capacity. As well, it was tough to come to terms that just the circumstance was there of identifying the obstacles and how to approach it.
In my opinion back, and this is back when I was leading a pandaren guild in MoP is that its the easiest to introduce new elements, new ideas. How can items be tied in. For example, if someone wanted to do an Arathi themed guild/storyline, how can it be tied into Duskwood sort of stuff. The intent is to provide more accessibility and opportunity for different strokes for different folks.
I really do hope that eventually when I have time (and move to the West Coast) I can come back and help contribute, but in the mean time I think still talking about and brainstorming monumentally helps push this along, it’s always just being solution oriented.
Extremely similar experience to what I and a guildie had the first time we tried to RP there, very sorry to hear you too had an unfortunate time. I’ve stuck it out though and have continued to try and RP there, as I want to have some good community RP, not just guild-based RP. But as others have stated, Duskwood is on an indefinite hiatus for the most part for now it seems.
Going to knit these two points together, as I’ve seen this same Missed Connection scenario play out many times here and elsewhere:
If you’re wallflowering to the point that you’re only relying on a passive TRP to be hooked in (i.e., not emoting your entrance or adding a /say quip to ongoing conversation), you may be mistaken as being OOC or a lamp.
A lamp is someone who chills and watches WoW RP like it’s a player-run cutscene. Sometimes they’re fellow RPers with TRPs but not RPingat the moment, sometimes they’re non-RPers hovering out of curiosity.
In places I’ve been, lamps weren’t always expecting to be included. I used to regularly RP hook or whisper idle folks like this but got enough “just chilling / want to watch / lamping / etc.” replies over the years that I decided it’s more polite to wait till someone writes an /emote or /say to signal they’re joining in.
So if you’re idling in an RP scene, typing zero emote/says, and think a passive TRP is enough, it’s not always. Characters aren’t meta — they can’t see TRP profiles and know a perfect stranger is totally down to be approached, and it’s awkward and sometimes considered rude even by the most charismatic of personalities to snag someone minding their own business from a chair and yank them into conversation. To let others know you’re present and your character is joining the scene, emote your entrance, toss in a /say, or otherwise put out an active signal so folks have something to latch on to.
WRA-A being an active community instead of several guilds sequestered off into their own groups doing their own things seems like an exercise in futility. Eventually, people figure out who they get along with most, form their own sub communities based off that, those sub communities become the actual communities, and if you’re lucky they just don’t do anything together. If you’re unlucky, well, things get bad.
Acknowledging the cliques and the damage they’ve caused in running otherwise enthused players away from the community couldn’t be more important. Reading the stories of the last few posters who have said they were whispered negative things by someone in the Duskwood community doesn’t surprise me at all. In fact, I’m pretty sure I know exactly who this was. Someone rather prominent once whispered someone I know with what amounted basically to a “who are you and do you even go here” type message. That’s as specific as I’ll get, but it’s something for those of you making current efforts to be vigilant against.
That goes for the Discord communities as well. I’ve seen it happen to a few people and to me personally in WCP. Basically, if you don’t share the same opinions as the most popular voices and ever openly state your differing perspective, you’ll get called out and ostracized pretty quickly. There’s a lot of leeway for these favored children and not much at all for those who’ve established themselves as anything else.
All of this stuff contributes to what I still maintain is the biggest problem facing the rejuvenation of the Alliance community here on WrA - the acquisition and retention of warm bodies. People aren’t going to flock to a place they don’t feel is actively and openly welcoming and integrating new blood. And people aren’t going to stick around when they find themselves not accepted by the one or two cliques that seem to run the whole scene.
Kudos to those of you currently making great efforts while also acknowledging the gravity of this particular issue. Just stay vigilant and make sure your initiatives never start being sabotaged from within.
This whole thread has just reminded me of a problem I’ve always had.
If I cant find something I’m looking for, I try to create it or force it to happen. I get proactive. I feel like most people… aren’t that way. If its not there they just leave.
OR they try to interject themselves in to people that are doing things and twist their vision/ideas in to theirs, and then get upset when it isn’t received well and doesn’t go their way.
We need more people creating their own guilds, hangout spots, vibes, communities etc. The more THE BETTER. Don’t fit in with a clique? Ok who gaf, find another or start your own. Build a better scene than the one that didn’t accept you out of spite.
There’s so many people out there you can find your crowd, you just have to make some effort. We dont all need to fit in within one scene or discord or whatever, we need tons of individual groups doing things, recruiting to their efforts, and filling up the world.
RP takes communication, and someone has to initiate the convo.
(this probably turned in to an incoherent ADHD rant.)
Even some of the people in here talking about the damage that attitude has done to this community have contributed to it when it mattered most to fight against it. I used to be one of the biggest voices for revitalizing WRA-A and I couldn’t have been burned harder. The longer this stays up and the more we talk about how this happened and why we got to this point, the more I feel the urge to contribute, to help, to throw my hat in the ring, but I have been explicitly informed I am not welcome to do so.
alittle unrelated but I feel like the Unbalanced issue on Moonguard could be solved along with other servers with a faction imbalance could be solved by offering
FREE CHARACTER FACTION CHANGES but only to the side that is the minority.
They could also balance world pvp but that is a whole other topic for the pvp forums and that forum is toxic as hell.
Sarsi has an Orcish name given to her by an Orc she met in Pandaria when she helped at the Siege of Orgrimmar depose Garrosh’kar fanatics.
Lohn’osh “Heroes Heart” because her actions and her aid explicitly offered no benefit to Stromgarde by helping Orgrimmar, she rarely uses it because she doesn’t always feel comfortable using her Orcish name when she is otherwise not part of that culture.
But she holds into it because an Orcish woman she calls friend is who gave it to her.
As someone who loves playing warriors, I cannot tell you the number of times I’ve rolled an Orc with the most genuine of, “This time I mean it” intentions. I really would love to RP an Orc Warrior.
However, I feel like they should be taller and whenever I roll one and log in, it feels and plays only slighter taller than a Dwarf. I know it’s not, but that’s how they feel to me and I am immediately irked and log out.
The “large” race in WoW that I feel has proportions mostly correct is Kul’tiran. (subjective, ofc), but I can’t play a Kul’tiran because the hair is too shiny.
It’s a salty sea-faring race and yet they don’t look or feel weathered at all.
