I wouldn’t characterize the advantage as “crippling” when the race/class combinations you are describing are in competition in The Classic Dueler’s League, for example, and their opponents still manage to remain competitive.
Look, dude… Again, you’re asking for data that can’t be collected. BEFORE BLIZZARD BROKE IT, the census add-on indicated a minor to massive majority horde playerbase on almost all pvp servers.
Given the experience of Alliance players on pvp servers and the impossibility of collecting, new, accurate data, you need to accept this.
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Am I burying my head in the sand? I don’t really know what that means, but I apologize if it offends you.
I’m not suggesting that there isn’t data. I am unfamiliar with it though, would you be so kind as to direct me towards it?
Not sure what sort of a response that is supposed to be.
It could be simulated. Has it been?
What is the claim? There’s an advantage? OK.
Is it significant on a WPVP scale?
Is that the reason so many people are making posts about WPVP being too much?
So, now we have 3 things that seem like they could be potential causes of a supposed issue:
- racial advantage
- population advantage
- simply too large of player capacity on servers
Are there actual issues? How would we know? And please don’t take my question as suggesting we cannot possibly know; let’s find out, shall we? How can we?
If there are actual issues, can we measure them? How can we measure them?
If we can identify them, we can likely identify potential solutions, start to implement them, and measure their success.
I get your point about how data is needed to prove things and all that, but here’s an analogy:
You are in a neighborhood. People to your left, right and center are getting shot, mugged or beaten. You do not need statistics to tell you this is not a safe neighborhood.
Anecdotal evidence is not evidence, but when there’s enough of it, it shouldn’t be dismissed as carrying no weight anymore.
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Burying your head in the sand means you are intentionally trying to avoid something that’s visible in plain sight.
Historical Data on Class, Race, Faction across all arena seasons.
You put four qualifiers before dropping several paragraphs that didn’t respond to the thing you quoted.
Only way OP has a chance against Alliance is being 60 levels higher than them.
Oh. I’m not sure I follow, but sorry if that offends you.
Level squish is happening, he will be level 50 then.
See the post right below the one I’m quoting.
We CAN NOT collect empirical evidence because Blizzard doesn’t want us to, and no, it can’t be simulated, because we also can’t collect evidence about how many people have joined, quit, or transferred servers since Blizzard banned census.
I’m sorry but, that was the only way.
ALL we have is anecdotal evidence. My own is this; I haven’t been able to get to Kalimdor all day long absent a mage portal because Horde raids of 15+ players have been camping the docks at booty bay and menethil literally since 7 am this morning.
Edit: and these include raid geared-60s. I’ve seen two warriors with sulfuras and 1 shaman.
I dunno, in the 3/4 man groups i’m running we run over 5-10 man horde groups majority of the time.
Southshore isn’t pvp its a show of numbers and how many of them aren’t afk.
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Pretty much… hit them with anything close to equal numbers and unless its a group of raiders they shatter and run.
That said they tend to regroup with 40 pretty quick.
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Absolutely!
So, let’s forget about the racial advantages and the possibility that servers may just have too large of a population capacity in general, and look at the one idea that there is an issue due to faction balance.
If that is the case, then balancing the faction population might be a good solution.
Looking at: https://ironforge.pro/servers/ for example, I’m not sure what assumptions we might make, but we could maybe use it as a baseline to at least determine roughly what faction balance is like for those who are logging raids.
Looking purely at a faction balance perspective, it seems that Kurinnaxx is the most balanced PVP server at 47.7 Alliance to 52.3 Horde.
Stalagg, Skeram and Thalnos look to be the worst balanced PVP servers in the Horde favor at roughly 30/70 Horde favoring.
And perhaps Heartseeker is currently the only Alliance favoring PVP server at roughly 85/15.
So, those are the PVP servers with the biggest imbalances, faction wise (please feel free to correct me, if I’ve missed any - I can’t seem to find a filter-by-server-type).
We could make some simulations ourselves by making lists of skills, and classes, and pitting 10v10 against each other, as you might find in a WSG Battleground situation. Something like that can definitely be simulated.
At least in that way, we could see something that would indicate what sort of advantage Horde racials give over Alliance. That’s all I mean about that.
I understand that, but I’m also curious as to whether that’s just a “PVP happened on a PVP server” issue, or a faction balance issue. Or perhaps a server capacity issue (I certainly don’t think it is a racial ability issue, but maybe it is).
Anecdotally, I spent a couple of hours on an Alliance character on Stalagg today to see if I could better understand whether there is a problem.
Because, if there actually is, then I also think that the playerbase could do something to help resolve it (at least something rather than complain).
No they won’t, because horde have this bizarre superiority complex. Every alliance player I know also plays horde. I know very few horde players who would ever even consider rolling an alliance toon at any time for any reason. Not to say ALL.
You guys are largely mentally ill. I don’t mean that as an insult but more of a clinical observation.
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To many people the ends justify the means.
Why throw away a massive gamebreaking huge advantage in PvP with the racials by rolling alliance instead of horde.
Knowing that other people also make those decisions, why throw away a huge population disparity by rolling alliance instead of horde on PvP servers?
It’s not mental illness, they are taking cold hard logic over simply choosing a side. I think Shamans are the strongest PvP class. I’d put my class selection where my mouth was if my friend wasn’t deadset on being a Ret Paladin again.
That doesn’t describe the horde at all, as I know them. They are more tribal than even the most ardent sports fans.
That’s a good point, but we can definitely take it upon ourselves to resolve issues that we find, if we are able. There’s a surprising diversity among skillsets, occupations, and resources to be found among millions of people. Even something as simple as starting a guild, and recruiting rerolls could be a start.
Right, yes, of course.
Try getting horde to reroll alliance to fix the population imbalance.
Let me know how that works out.
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I will when I actually believe there is an issue that is more than QQing.