Threads pretty long so I didn’t read it all, but I think Hulk would be a better metaphor for the Horde.
He’s the strongest there is (except for all those stories where he’s not), he’s basically a good guy who is misunderstood that wants to be left along (except for all those stories he’s not), and occasionally someone with a 5-d chess plan and super intelligence tricks him into doing evil things (except in all those stories where he just does evil things because he is Hulk and he is pissed.)
I also think the Hulks ‘product of an abusive father figure’ background fits the Horde (as a whole) better than Logan’s ‘was an experiment of the Canadian government’ background or Sentry’a drug addict background.
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Conceptually yes but hulk is still just a normal hero
Except in the stories where he’s not and he’s the villain the other heroes have to take down (before discovering XYZ reason why someone else is a greater threat/was really behind the Hulk actions all along, etc.).
That sounds like the Horde to me. Regular heroes, except when the writers decide they are not.
(I’m not talking MCU Hulk here, to be clear, I’m talking the original Savage Hulk and his multiple iterations.)
If you’re arguing power scale and not core personality, better example is:
The Alliance are the Justice League’s Big Five.
The Horde are the Great Lakes Avengers.
It’s rather silly to present councils as an instant solution when all that ends up happening is an oligarchy. It cannot be assumed the majority won’t slip into doing wrong, as assuming good intentions is never a good idea. It also doesn’t mean a dictator couldn’t be made out of one member of the council starting to gain more influence than the other and uses various means of keeping the rest in line until the full “I am the Senate” moment.
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I’d like to see the Horde be Black Adam. Distrusted by the Alliance for their methods and often coming to blows yet at the same time there is some mutual respect and you can understand where they are coming from.
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In terms of morality stories, WoW is less like Marvel or DC comics and more like Chick Tracts. I dunno if I can go into more detail without violating rules discussing religion. Basically, you either accept Anduin Wrynn as your Lord and Savior, or you’re a hell-bound moron.
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And the dumbest part is that it in no way actually makes the “young idealistic king” at all interesting. No meaningful questioning and growth of his character.
Just doing “well he needs to pick up the sword sometimes” doesn’t work as long as the writing around it makes it obviously the right thing to do. “Call for peace when it suits you” should have had more validity. The Alliance’s thing of “bringing light and justice to the world” should sometimes mean it resembles the real world issues of “policing the world” imperialism, as they would have their own biases and interests.
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partially repeating and elaborating on something I posted in another similar thread (Horde, a different kind of herosim)
Alliance Heroes: should be like The Knights of the Round Table. This isn’t quite so ‘pure and idealistic’ as it sounds, even going by the pretty idealistic TH White version. Several knights were flawed- Arthur’s foster brother Sir Kay could be a jerk, especially when he was younger, but was genuinely brave and fiercely loyal. Gawain was very hot-headed and unforgiving or any insult or injury to his pride/honor. Lancelot wanted to be so pure that it basically broke him when he failed and had an affair with his best friend’s wife. Sir Percival, like his father Pelinore, is very pure-hearted but sort of an idiot who gets by on pure luck and the fact that he’s so nice virtually even he meets wants to be nice back. Sir Bors is a misogynist religious fanatic and is one of the three knights who actually gets the Holy Grail because he is absolutely unwilling to bend his principles. Sir Galahad is so inhumanly perfect no one can stand him, because he creeps them all out.
Horde Heroes: should be like Pulp Action characters. Conan the Barbarian, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, Solomon Kane. People whose solution is usually ‘brute force, if that doesn’t work, use more’. I think we’re all probably familiar with Conan, who has no problem taking what he wants regardless of what it is. There are some stories where he basically joins villainous groups, either kills or seduces their current more-evil leader to become leader himself, gets them all slaughtered fighting an unholy abomination, feels a bit sad his ‘friends’ are dead, then goes forth to do it all over again. Fafhd and Grey Mouser are snarky thieves (well, more mouser than Fafhad, who is probably actually more moral that Conan is). They live in a world where moral standards are so low that they’re pretty much heroes by default. This might not work quite so well in WoW, but there are still plenty of totally evil organizations who can be slaughtered in droves. Solomon Kane, also by the guy who created Conan, upon being warned not to go down a road haunted by a ghost that’s so far killed everyone who went down it promptly thinks ‘Adventure!’ and goes on to punch the ghost into submission with his bare hands- even though said ghost is a completely incorporeal spirit being. Horde heroes should be ruthless, pragmatic end-justifies-the-means’ guys trying to get by in a danger-filled world.
WHAT BLIZZARD ACTUALLY GIVES US:
Alliance: Ned Flanders
Horde: Homer Simpson
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Warcraft needs more goofy.
Ug, there’s a thought.
WoW gets bought out by Disney and becomes incorporated into Kingdom Hearts.
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wows story makes that mess look good.
So Zovaal is Sylvanas’ sugar daddy?
That explains how she got him to give her those powers! And makes Nathanos a cuck.
I’ve gotta be honest, I don’t think I would have gotten to like the Horde if that’s all it was.
I’d be okay with orcs being like that. But not the Horde as a whole.
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It would’ve been very good, but that would be fun and we can’t have that.
I remember People have talked about a South Seas expansion since at least Cata. Reunite with Kul Tiras, Ruins of Zandalar(the only good retcon of BfA is that Zandalar didn’t sink), being captain of your own pirate ship, fighting Naga and the forces of N’Zoth with pvp A/H skirmishes inbetween, Pirate Lord politics! The expansion writes itself and it was a very hyped idea.
Then what we got was BfA which was the opposite of a bombastic pirate adventure cause the writers wanted to show us that genocide is bad. Fun.
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I away kind of saw the Alliance as Mr. Bill and the Horde as Mr. Slugo… and Blizzard as Mr. Hands.