And? The Alliance was betrayed by Alterac and it still managed to best the Horde!
If anything that is a better victory, while the Robocat was horribly done, getting Vol’jin to beg us so he could use our supplies to kill other Horde is a priceless memory for me.
The one time the Horde won, the Alliance did not exist yet! It was Stormwind versus an entire planet and even then Gul’dan had to resort to treachery to actually win.
The former Classic Dev interview on Reddit painted Metzen as the lone Alliance/Thrall’s Horde developer in a room full of unrepentant WC2 Horde fans.
I know right. It is still unfair that Horde players couldn’t force Tyrande to grovel fro their help in Legion instead of making us have to put up with her haughtiness. Should have also made the Kirin Tor give the Horde player assurances that they wouldn’t pull the same crap on Horde citizens that they did in the purge. They wanted us to be cannon fodder for them they should at least have had the decency to ask nicely for our help instead of the condicending ‘oh I suppose you can come to our city to die for our agenda’ that we got in Legion.
Blizzard having double standards for Horde and Alliance characters right there.
You aware BfA was basically MoP 2.0 but with more outrageous drama?
No seriously, it´s literally the same. So how can you expect more creative input from the same group of hacks that didn´t even tried to engage with their own original ideas but rather copy-pasted a previous narrative?
In the best scenario I expect absolute zero development for the Horde “Council”, and in the regular scenario I expect not one but multiple faction leaders´heads rolling down and getting the villain bat 4 years from now when MoP 3.0 launches (I mean, ity matches perfectly with their “moar drama” approach).
Simply put it, the people in charge of writting this has no real creative input and basically act like lazy morons repeating storylines on an infinite cycle (see: Jaina).
Perhaps our mileage may vary and I’m not as disenfranchised as you are.
Nah, unless Afriasiabi et al bite the dust, I´m absolutely convinced they will repeat ad nauseaum this cycle of: Horde cartoonish villain batting—> Horde Irrelevance -----> Horde cartoonish villain batting.
The already did it once and didn´t bat an eyelash while they basically lied to us for half of the expac, so…
I know you didn’t mean anything bad by it, but I feel frustrated that the horde leadership was written to become problematic and needing removal in the first place. Twice. Especially since this sort of thing should have been solved before the start of WoW in the first place. I don’t see why I’d be optimistic over a miserable experience like this.
Who enjoys spending their limited time and energy on a game that forces you to lose and shames you for things out of your control?
Wait, don’t answer that, I don’t want to hear what you do with ropes behind closed doors.
I agree with you I was just pointing out how the future could be optimistic for the faction.
I’ve been playing a worgen rogue lately and it’s amazing how coherent and relevant the Alliance questing experience is to my character. Most quests relate to other human kingdoms. I also feel connected to Night Elves, as they helped you escape Gilneas.
This is very interesting because as a long-time Alliance player, I have the exact opposite reaction that made me switch most of my playtime to Horde in Legion, and all but abandoning BFA on my Alliance character.
As a former Night Elf main, I just found the Alliance too centered on Stormwind stuff in a SW aesthetic, with gnomes/dwarves thrown in for technobabble flavour, night elf for naturey/druidy quests, and worgen to carry out the ferocious dirty work. You’d be lucky to find a draenei or pandaren. In every case though, every non-human race would be a shallow caricature, whereas the human quest and flavour would be much more fleshed out.
Maybe I need to do more Horde questing but it always felt to me that while the Orcish race, story and aesthetic is noticeably the Horde vehicle, I always felt like the other races had a clear stake in the game. Other races, while not as numerous as orcs, were more fleshed out than their non-human Alliance counterparts.
For instance, so much of the Alliance’s main vehicle is dominated by humans in the last 2 expacs - SI:7, the overwhelming SW colours, themes, and setting. The equivalent would be if, say Tattersail, was portrayed by an orc.
In any given zone who knows what the quest giver will be. From pretty elves to native american minotaurs to literal walking corpses, the game hits you with vastly different characters and quests. Even the groups you think might be straightforward allies like Orcs are relics of Hellscream’s era in Cata.
Perhaps this is the difference between your camp and mine though is that I actually like how this feels. It feels more real to me to have such a melting pot of flavours, personality and perspective.
I definitely think Horde characters are underdeveloped over-all, especially those central to the overarching story.
Friend, it might be the superficial straw that didn’t break on the proverbial camel’s back for you, but I assure you that it isn’t for a lot of people. Years upon years of the same dang flavour gets really stale. The thematic stasis of the Alliance has soured me of the faction, and created a disconnect in getting immersed in my character and the setting. The Horde’s story on a macro level is dire, but for me, doesn’t take away from the world-building in the micro.
That´s because contrary to what the average narrowminded “I only care about the aesthetics, and everything looking different to “savage” Orc stuff does not belong to tyhe Horde” poster will say to you, in truth Horde races aren´t compatible by this similar aesthethic and homogenization of cultures but actually by the way they are developed and the way they were implemented in the Horde.
To put it simple, the Horde races join the Horde following three premises:
They are people in a desperate situation / just survived a desperate situation; and in consequence they feel REALLY vulnerable and willing to look for external help.
They do have some questionable stuff polluting their image, but are trying to move on from the shady stuff (be that a past of acting like genocidal puppets or being part of an empire with some unsavory practices like cannibalism or having dealt with fel or being victims of corrupted magics or being generally environmental a-holes, etc.)
They tend to use a pragmatic vision; if breaking some moral rules is absolutely necessary for survival, they will. Not always, but they will tend to be more lax regarding “Honor” when the situation demands it.
All the Horde races, both the main and the allied, share two or three of these premises. As a consequence, one gets the feel these people are allied to each other not because they have a similar religion or use the same architecture principles or share morals but because the circunstamces made them, and in the process of integrating to the Horde they learned to leave their old prejudices and concepts behind; and to live with people with absolutely different culture because why not?
Horde gets a more realistic comradery feeling, one more organic cause it starts from a day-to-day interaction between the races (yes, those Forsaken may make fun of the stupid Orcs, but at the same time they have no issue working with them and following their input and sharing some stuff with them. In other words: they indeed LEARNED TO COEXIST with each other.)
An this feeling somehow is too… artificial, too unrealistic on Alliance. Maybe because in the writer´s desperate crusade to make it perfectly lawful good, they literally excised and neutered the races to the point the only way to justify their comradery is to make them clones of each other, not their own people with different culture but willing to adapt to others.
This is a lie.
Come on Anya, give him some credit… I would feel VERY scared too of hearing any err… “private” reasoning regarding a player that still believes the Horde story will magically fix itself just because an NPC was booted from the faction while the writers in charge of villain batting it to death and the ones actually responsible for the degeneration of the narrative are still in charge.
That´s a whole new level of either naivetee or inmorality. Truly disturbing stuff imho.
Heck, Vulpera scenario, nuff said. Lovely how the whole Horde council can be extrapolated as either massive incompetent morons themselves willing to put the guy whose first response to the job (A.K.A. portray a positive image of the Horde to potential allies and make them want to join) was to boycott the faction as an instintive response, or as massive a-holes that ditched their responsabilities the first chance they got and left their work load in the shoulders of the moron more interested in boycotting the faction than making it grow.
Yeah where the heck is my sylvanas raid then
Err… maybe in SL 2nd or 3rd patch?
You aware the incoming expac is not 100% done, right?
but you said bfa was like mop? Not shadowlands
With some details trying to “make it pass for different” too… and it was infinitelkly moar soap operish to have Sylvanas skip the raid part (also this way they could put even more focus in the degenerate Wrynn writer pet) and make her the equivalent to WoD Garrosh.
Also, isn´t it too late for a little one like you to be up?
If seeing a castle in this fantasy game “breaks the camel’s back” for you, that’s your issue, not “the worldbuilding”.
We’re not friends, don’t presume
Well, getting to see the supposed “underdog” race be better at basically everything sans Shamanism -though OP KT Humans, nuff said- to everybody IS a turnoff.
It´s hard for me to believe the devs when they “totally swear, the elves are ubber advanced at magic / druidism than the humans cause entire culture devoted to it” while they pull their Khadgars, Aegwynns, Lucans Foxblood, etc. 24/7.
A children movie phrase seem to apply here: when everybody is especial, then no one truly is.