Well I agree with you too but I don’t see how the alliance and horde are different in that regard I played both but main alliance and questing an all that orc presence is extactly the same as the human one yet it’s horde players and some alliance who keep saying it’s a alliance only problem
Well enjoy the horde story I don’t want your story this is why there’s two factions. Every time you people talk about this it isn’t about making the alliance better for alliance players it’s about making the alliance better for horde players benefit
Am I? Because that sort of storytelling implodes in on itself when Anduin wants to make peace with the Horde. Really? The side that’s been established to be cold blooded lunatics who’ll kill women and children at the drop of a hat?
When you make the Alliance the no strings attached, lawful good best boys you make them come off as imbeciles who’d try to hug it out with a rabid bear because ‘I can sense good in him’
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The way Blizzard is writing it, the Alliance is Charlie Brown and the Horde is Lucy holding the football. You’d think ‘fool me once’ etc, but no.
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You know anduin has only been the main focus of the alliance for a xpac did you think the same way when varian made peace? The story has always played it as the horde and alliance are evenly matched they fight and win till the horde is out of there lands then peace and prepare for the next war while hoping for the best every single alliance leader believes in peace even tyrande it’s not just anduin it’s always been that way sure this war was more bloody and more leaders are upset I guess will see where the story goes
Alright then
My favorite is when Saurfangs going
“Idk man this is like the umpteenth time some version of the Horde’s been responsible for indefensible acts of cruelty. Maybe this whole operation is just kind of a bad idea”
And Anduin, King of the Alliance, gives him a pep talk about how the Horde’s quite nice actually dont beat yourself up about the genocide thing.
And here’s the thing; Anduin isn’t wrong. There’s countless Horde heroes also saving lives and worlds. But in BFA, from the Alliance perspective, they’ve been shown as nothing but callous killers. That sentiment comes off as hollow in the context of the story.
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From a strictly character perspective and not the omniscient view the players have, it makes total sense. Saurfang is a grizzled vet who has seen some serious stuff and is sick of it. Anduin is a freshly minted king who grew up idealistic to the point of naivety. That character interaction is completely in line. Its just silly when we sit back and analyze it.
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Horde used to have a feel of survivors.
Now they are just villains.
I play Alliance now.
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I feel the reverse of that. From the player perspective you know there are good people on the Horde. Hell in Legion you fought alongside all types in your class hall.
But with just the context of the Alliance story in BFA, the Horde as a political institution comes off as a mass murder machine that must be stopped. Baine and of course Saurfang are shown to be decent but outside of that, you really don’t see a human side to the Horde that makes peace seem sensible or even possible.
On the Horde meanwhile you’ve the interaction with Zelling which reminds you there’s families caught up in this who were already suffering. And while in disguise you speak with Alliance footsoldiers. One of whom has fallen in love with a local bartender.
These little moments that remind you the Alliance are just people who need not be enemies. Plus the Alliance never does anything unforgivable. They kill Rastakhan, but it’s not like they smothered the guy in his sleep it was a fight. And beyond that - well the Velves come off as a bunch of cackling weirdos doing terribly unwholesome things to the Zandalari wildlife but that’s about it.
On the Blue side even if you did get more moments showing the softer side of the Horde, that wouldn’t convince you the political organization is a non-issue. Between Teldrassil and Brennadam why ever trust this thing?
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I wouldn’t say the alliance characters aside of a few have a strong development. Literally their actions are either forgotten(Maiev) or their arcs are recycled(Jaina hating the horde only to switch back to love them with all her heart was repeated 3 times already)
Only time they get a nice spotlight is when they are in a neutral position and their so called allies are no where to be seen (Khadgar in WoD and Velen in Legion) which feeds the notions that are just united by gameplay reasons rather than even sharing an ideology.
The Horde “faction feeling” is a consequences of despite going to civil war at least 2 times, most of them band together when things hit the fan and get serious as we saw with Vol’jin uniting the Horde against Garrosh. Also because whenever we do questing in a Horde Hub, you see a lot of diversity in not just the npc but the questgivers.
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I’m not talking about the players as in the player characters, I’m talking about the players as in the humans reading the story. Poor choice of wording on my part.
because the horde is selfish and only cares about itself, which its why its time for the horde to put its neck on the line for the alliance for once.
I think they’re saying the same thing. The Alliance playthrough’s narrative doesn’t really try to convey to the players that the Horde is made up of anything other than bloodthirsty monsters. That it may be full of relatable people.
Outside of Saurfang and Bane in cutscenes, the bulk of the Alliance game experience doesn’t frame the Horde as victims of Sylvanas’ manipulations so much as eager co-conspirators. Or just not caring and exploiting it as a chance to kill for the sheer joy of it.
The narrative also never really tries to shame the Alliance for any actions it takes during the war, as far as I know. Characters don’t participate in something framed as terrible/unjustified/wrong and then go, “Oh no. What have I done?” or have some other character call them out on it.
So then, when you get to a cutscene between Saurfang and Anduin, and the former is telling you the Horde is bad (duh) but then the latter tries to state that the Horde isn’t that bad and the Alliance has its fair share of mistakes (buh?), it does clash with the what the rest of what the Alliance narrative has been up until that point.
Although it could be argued in the meta sense that the player knows the Horde is suppose to be more nuanced than the Alliance playthrough would suggest- but that’s only because they’ve also played through the Horde story, read supplemental material, listened to creator commentary, etc.
It’s not because of the games’ narrative itself. The narrative itself has been kind of bad at showing it.
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Where they’re depicted as poopsock gamers.
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The Alliance and Horde have gone head to head 4 times.
- Horde win and burn down Stormwind.
- Alliance wins, but only after the Horde splits between those loyal to Gul’dan and those loyal to Doomhammer.
- Alliance wins, but only after the Horde splits between those loyal to Garrosh and those loyal to Vol’jin.
- Alliance wins, but only after the Horde splits between those loyal to Sylvanas and those loyal to Saurfang.
The Alliance has never won a straight fight against the Horde. In fact, the one time the Horde stayed united, they won.
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not the same horde and alliance
not the same horde and alliance
the alliance was turning the war before the voljin stuff, they even said it when they called voljins buff
they already won the war before the split, they where winning at all fronts, and sylvanas forces where depleted and saurfangs forces where small.
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The core of the conflict is Orcs vs Humans. We use “Alliance vs Horde” as a substitute to that to include the other races joining each side of that core conflict. In each case, the Alliance does not achieve victory without that division. The Vol’jin deal was a “you need us more than we need you” deal, but Voljin’s splintering weakens the Horde greatly. And Anduin says straight up that the Alliance can’t beat Sylvanas with Saurfang.
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then he ends up being wrong, cause heres the thing, you are ignoring, power in wow doesnt exist, the alliance wins all the wins cause they are the good guy in the story, and the horde has a rebellion cause they cant have players actually lose.
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They could have the players lose. It’d actually be interesting, but they’re risk adverse.