Alliance development

As a horde player you still have the loyalist option though that puts you into the immersion that everything you and the horde did was morally right and not questionable at all.

The loyalist route most definitely doesn’t paint you as morally right. It just lets you be on the nominal side of the villain in what amounts to scenes and gameplay 99% the same as the default route.

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Loyalist is the default route.

Incorrect.

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I just did the quest line recently and even though I chose to ‘not betray my warchief’ it put me in Saurfangs camp for SoO2.

Considering that the loyalist quests were added later, what gives you that idea?

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Imagine thinking the quests where you are pretending to help the rebels is default

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maybe, but it will probably anger me more when we do this again and the horde stabs us in the back again doing another atrocity. i would be not be surprised anymore at that point, but at the same time,i guess that i will just not care about it anymore.

and at the same time we had to help the horde again with their stupid rebellion instead of murdering them all like they deserve.

i mean that is why i created the thread. to find out if it was even possible to get a conclusion at least without involving the horde.
no genocide, no nuking more cities, no kill horde characters at the hands of the alliance.

it seems like it is impossible. as this thread shows. apparently the alliance is stupid por wanting peace. and honestly, they are probably right.

Just put NPCs in Gilneas, and add some Night Elf stuff to it and say it was retaken.

Also make Ironforge the center of the Alliance again.

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Imagine killing Genn as a villain in a raid and then think again if it will anger you more. All the while you will have Baine telling your such a great hero for killing him because he had become unforgivably evil and all the other Alliance leaders will node along at Baine’s sage wisdom.

At least you get to mostly ignore us when you have to deal with neutral content. Horde characters don’t get that luxury. Still, maybe shadowlands will be different and you will have to wonder around being buddy buddy with Horde leaders.

Oh and yeah, you had to help them again just as the Horde had to be cartoonish villains in a faction war Horde players were given no reason to fight. Its the reality. Its how blizzard does things. It is how blizzard has done things since Cata. I don’t like it any more than you.

Unlikely you will be able to remove the Horde from the equation completely. The best we can hope for is a rival type scenario like in Mechagon, where we are working parallel towards a similar goal but independently. To remove the Horde completely, you would have to remove Horde players completely and that isnt going to work.

I can’t see the Alliance ever getting removed from Horde questing which is why in Legion I didn’t want to see less Alliance as much as I wanted Horde presence. I wanted to see the Horde represented with more than a couple of named NPCs sitting in the back of a hub chatting with the person next to them one time.

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If he’s acting evil, sure.

Hi, Cataclysm and MoP called. Something about a Green Jesus?

Dude. Two races you interact with outright went Horde. What are you complaining about, Val’sharah? Because that’s the only one that involves Alliance characters until the .2 patch. If we got any more Horde presence we’d be playing WoD.

And that would make you happy?

People keep bringing that up like Green Jesus was in our faces 24/7. In Cata, if you weren’t Horde, he featured in one breadcrumb quest while leveling, one quest chain in the Firelands patch and the last dungeon and raid in the final patch. In MoP, the Alliance barely deals with Thrall and it is only at the end and apart from the moment he gets slapped down by Garrosh, Varian is there too and as significant. Outside of that you have one interaction with Vol’jin in a rushed 5.3 patch which the devs at the time admitted was a rush job and you can make Vol’jin beg the Alliance for help.

Malfurion played as much if not more of a role in Cata prior to the final patch.
Every expansion since Cata I have had to work with an Alliance character of note at one point or another. We even have to quest for Anduin in MoP. All the major neutral characters like Malfurion, Brann, Khadgar and Magni all come from the Alliance and while Alliance characters claim that doesn’t because they are neutral, it certainly feels like I am questing for Alliance characters, particularly when they are still tied to the Alliance such as Malfurion and Brann.

WoD?!? Thrall is literally the only one who turns up that expansion and for Alliance players it is for one bloody cutscene. I spent the entire expansion hob knobbing with Khadgar and got lectured and threatened by Jaina. Apparently because it involved killing orcs it is a Horde expansion. Lets just ignore that two whole zones are dedicated to friendly Draenei as opposed to a couple of small settlements of Frostwolves in the back of Frostfire and a overrun Laughing Skull village.

Yeah we got Highmountian and Nightborne AFTER the event. They weren’t Horde at the time. You certainly didn’t have to work with Thalyssra while she is badmouthing your faction like Horde players had to with Alleria. They outright said they hadn’t initially planned to make the Nightborne an Allied race but did after they became so popular. That is why they had to redo the models to make them playable. That is the thing with the Horde. They get shoe horned in or tacked on to the side. Just look at the 180 with Lillian Voss and Garona at the start of BfA.

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Yeah, not a big fan of working with people who make Gulag Guy and Moustache Man look like swell people comparatively. I’d rather kill them and be done with it than have to work with them.

Yes. Orc of Orcraft: Orclords of Orcnor. In Warlords of Draenor , explore the savage world of Draenor, as you savage the savages of the savage jungles and savage deserts and savage mountains and savage the savage races with savage savage savages. #Savage

Where the True Horde ran off from the Horde and created the Iron Horde which became the Fel Horde. Do we need to repeat HORDE more or are you starting to get the drift, mr disingenuous?

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Don’t bother arguing about “Horde Expansions” 
 it never turns out well.

Cata was pretty evenly distributed between the Horde and Alliance. Yes, the Horde picked up a few previously neutral zones, but it really was just to allow the Horde to have a better questing/leveling experience; from what was sort of a tacked on joke in Vanilla. Thrall was important to the Meta Story, but he barely shows up outside of those final cutscenes. I think I worked more for Molton Front Malf than I did Green Jesus. As for MoP 
 I mean, it definitely was a Horde expansion. But, it is the first of many that simply came at the expense of the Horde Faction 
 especially with how squandered the payoff was with Vol’jin.

Then we have WoD 
 this was not a Horde expansion. Just because we were killing a traditionally Horde race, it doesn’t make the MU Horde presence any less irrelevant. We have a single, solitary questline with a Mopey Thrall being creepy about his AU Parents; and ultimately him killing off Garrosh in a method that appealed to nobody. We also have Liadrin playing shotgun to the Draenei’s story. Beyond that, its us killing AU Orcish legacy characters; the Expansion removing the tragedy of the savagery that was the Fel Corruption, and just making Orcs evil from birth; and AU Durotan becoming strangely irrelevant 
 while we follow around Kadghar.

As for Legion, total Alliance expansion. No, it does not focus on Alliance internal issues beyond the death of Varian. But that reality doesn’t change a thing about it being an expansion following Alliance legends; championing Alliance themes; and starring great Alliance moments. The Highmountain and Nightborne becoming Horde ARs does not retroactively turn it into a Horde expansion; especially when you realize that if you had removed Liadrin from Surumar 
 you could have removed the Horde faction entirely from the story without changing a thing. The Alliance defeated the Legion, the Horde just watched.

As for BfA 
 well, if you want to consider an expansion where the Horde was used as a mere vehicle to push the narrative of a single character who never in her entire history represented the Faction well; to settup the expansion Blizz clearly wanted to write 
 sure? It is a Horde Expansion. One that completely comes at the Horde Faction’s expense, and renders them every bit as powerless to affect the story Blizz wanted to tell as the Alliance. But, Horde Expansion.

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Blizzard only rebuilt the Vale because it’s going to be hosting another conflict with the New Meanies.

Blizzard has also told us time and again that they consider building new player capitals a colossal waste of time and resources.

AU Durotan wan’t made irrelevant. Y’rel had killed him when she went all Light Cruadey and he was one of the first to resist.

In Cata, Varian suddenly decided for no clear reason that he doesn’t like dwarves. Then in MoP, he grew a Hitler mustache, decided for no clear reason that he doesn’t like any non human races, and turned SI:7 into a Gestapo like Secret Police. He tried to have Muradin assassinated then started rounding up dwarves and putting them in front of firing squads. The expansion ended with the Horde and Alliance raiding Stormwind to kill Varian and every complicit human npc (including Admiral Taylor and Sky Admiral Rogers). Varian escaped to an alternate universe Azeroth that’s used to show that humans are almost inherently genocidal and evil and that most positive ideas about their past were actually a sham. Muradin became high king (nice!) but in Legion he took an arrow to the knee and died after doing nothing.

Tyrande became high king. She convinced Turalyon that the Alliance needs “a little elbow room” in Kalimdor so he started a war for her. Tyrande committed genocide against the tauren and burned all of Mulgore for no clear reason, causing the deaths of children and babies. Turalyon was barely prevented from killing himself out of guilt. The Horde retaliate and destroy Dolanaar then nearly take Darnassus (during which Turalyon attempts to kill himself again but is stopped by Baine) but Tyrande reveals utter contempt for her city and detonates it. Eventually, a guilt ridden Turalyon (spurred out of impotence and crippling depression by Baine) confronts Tyrande and gets wrecked by her. Tyrande and Malfurion reveal they couldn’t care less about night elves or the Alliance and disappear into the sunset. And then Mekkatorque leaves offscreen.

:face_with_hand_over_mouth: Yeah I’m sure that would make them happy.

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The problem with cata was the alliance zone revamps were awfully written with silly pop culture references. They needed to rebalance zones they screwed up the implementation.

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The Horde ones were riddled with Pop Cultural references to?