i don’t know, i have seen horde players demonizing jaina simply because she insulted them a little and killed like 5 belfs.
or genn. or tyrande. despite the fact… that the horde destroyed their cities in the first place…
So who does the demonizing?
the less the better that would be fine by me.
That’s Horde Players, that’s not Blizzard.
Jaina was excused and validated a million times over for her post Theramore behavior; and never faced consequences of it. Blizzard always justifies the slightly morally grey behaviors of the Alliance; largely by ensuring that they are always reactionary. Even the tragedy of Taraujo was watered down to absurd levels; and as a person who has long since grown sick of that even being mentioned … I don’t bring it up unless I feel I must. Blizzard is thoroughly unwilling to portray the Alliance in a negative light; and that must change if you want any chance at more nuanced story telling.
To this point, that would be fine. Let the Alliance sweep up some Sylvie holdouts in Ashenvale, its not like there is anyone of merit left on that front. Considering the two BfA core Horde leaders were almost completely out of the WoT are the only two that remain leaders in the current Horde; it seems Blizz was deliberately distancing Lor’themar and Baine from it. Hell, even Belmont wasn’t involved in the burning itself, and once those death camps were removed … he’s really only guilty of a few lines of melodramatic, generic villain dialogue. So Skeletor Belmont!
Setting up a new (maybe phased) version of Stromgarde and settling the Lightforged there so the Vindicaar can be written out of the story. It is a massive plot hole that will constantly complicate things if left as is. Make the new Stromgarde something along the lines of Thunder Totem or Suramar.
Let Rommath and Oculeth (and Aethas) set up a Horde version of Dalaran so the Kirin Tor can return fully to the Alliance.
The Worgen need to retake Gilneas, they have been a vagabond race long enough in the game.
New homes for the Night Elves and (Non-Sylvanas) Forsaken. Something Impressive. Then stress impressive a few more times. Actually work on uplifting the damaged feelings for the fans of those two.
Not Blizzard, which is who Droite was talking about.
Well actually, that’s not entirely true. Blizzard doesn’t demonize them, but Jaina’s actions in Dalaran and threat to destroy Orgrimmar, and both Genn and Tyrande’s obsession with revenge are generally framed as dark turns for their characters that can have potentially disastrous results. Fortunately, we can trust that they won’t actually ever do anything that could seriously revoke their status as good guys.
Part of why I’m not particularly worried about Tyrande being beaten with the villain bat. They’re laying it on with NPC dialogue that being the avatar of the Night Warrior is what’s making her act like this.
Even if we do have to face her in a raid, after we smack her up a bit or someone gives her a speech about remembering her “true self”, the Night Warrior is going to leave her, her eyes are going to return to normal, and she’ll regret any edgy/anti-heroic stuff she may have done.
What more consequences do you want? she got treated as a traitor by her own nation and family and portrayed in multiple ocassions as wrong, when she purged the sunreavers she got lectured by varian, she was portrayed as wrong for leaving dala during the legion invasion while velen and anduin were the wise ones.
i think that you are seeing what you want to see, the alliance also had some “bad lights” but when the laser focus of it is all on the horde is easy to see why the alliance seems to be more “morally correct” when you have literal genociders in the other side.
not so sure about that but in the other hand i cannot blame her for being like that.
maybe her story in shadowlands will be something among those lines.
so do you think that there is still some hope for the future that doesn’t involve wiping out the horde?
As long as you’re stuck on an unrealistic expectation, you will continue to be disappointed.
Give it a rest, Ethel. Even in your “let’s focus on the Alliance” thread, you took about a half-dozen shots at the Horde.
i did?
Dammit.
Your thread is titled “Alliance Development” and starts off as a laundry list of grievances against the other side. You are not going to get to punish us the way you want to, and frankly threads like these are starting to become petty.
okay then, fair enough, i guess that i should just resign and accept that there is no way out.
I think the easier thing to do is accept that the story disappointments for both sides were asymmetrical. I have noticed a recurring sentiment among Alliance players that unless the Horde suffered in the exact same way that they did, it’s somehow not satisfying. The Horde and its players suffered a great number of disappointments in BfA - they just were not exact mirrors of yours.
If you can accept that, rather than agitating for additional punishment, you might find that things are easier going forward.
Not with your unrealistic expectations. Despite the fact that you stated in your original post op that you don’t want to talk about wiping out the Horde Faction; you’ve also doubled back and attempted to draw conversation onto that very topic several times so far in this thread. TBH, the one here who seems to be having the most trouble discussing “Alliance Development” independent of the Horde … is you. Independent of the Red Team, how do YOU want the Blue Team to develop?
Not that it would matter. Fact of the matter remains that Blizz did portray it as the Alliance is not in a sufficient enough position of power by the end of 8.2.5 to actually follow through with Varian’s threat; at least not without absolutely catastrophic costs to themselves. Anduin’s “sparing the Horde” is more out of necessity, then altruism tbh. This is in no small part thanks to the ARs the Horde got; when compared to those the Alliance got. In general, the Alliance got the more developed, powerful AR leaders; the Horde got better developed and more powerful civilizations.
In terms of political and military might that the ARs bring to the table … the Horde came out way ahead of the Alliance in BfA.
They should give something to the night elves to show they are recovering from teldrasil but they won’t
Well ignoring that she is now the avatar of what she herself describes as Elune’s “most ruthless phase” and “darkest face” you also have the Sentinels in Boralus in 8.2.5 discussing the consequences of a mortal trying to contain the powers of such an entity.
Is she right to be upset and angry and want Teldrassil/Darkshoe back and Sylvanas to be stopped? Sure. Is it understandable that her desire for vengeance and the fact that she’s currently being inhabited by a literal spirit of vengeance may lead her to go beyond that or even ignore other extremely pressing issues- to the detriment of Azeroth? Absolutely.
Even should she end up as antagonistic, she’s not really been portrayed as unsympathetic.
i mean, i knew this ever since the start of the expansion. this is exactly what i predicted that was going to happen and it was my biggest fear.
maybe i just didn’t wanted to believe it.
i apprecciate your intent to show me that we sparing the horde was the correct choice but there is no use to that explanation if i don’t buy that.
i believe that the alliance was in a position of power and much more. not only at the end of the war but ever since the end of mop.
Yes, you could say me that the vulpera now are in the space age and i would still not believe that the horde is a match for us when we have literal demigods amongs our ranks that could solo the horde easily and an interdimoensional ship.
well, a challenge to the high king would be nice to start between those who still want war and those who want peace and how much help they will be willing to give.
The problem is writing a faction war is impossible if no faction is allowed to be destroyed. It just guarantees no one will be happy so they should stop doing open faction wars and go back to a Cold War style scenario.
They could still write a faction war when at least they give some sort of resolution to both sides. we didn’t had that the first time, there was no need to double it down.
The issues is if the consequences effect gameplay it would legitimately anger people and will therefore never happen which limits what they can do. They might have been able to pull it off if they hadn’t started
with teldrasil.
Edit typo
As for how the alliance to develop:
Alliance needs more cities horde needs more characters, I think that would make a good compromise.
to be fair, one faction will never have more cities than the other.