this is exactly what my guild is trying to prove
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Some cannot or will not understand this. For some, great self worth is tied to performance in this and other games, This person simply cannot understand a mindset of playing to less than optimal. Anyone doing so is carried by the self proclaimed expert players.
Luckily like minded players tend to gravitate to each other.
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Yup! My whole guild shares my views
if you ever want to make an ally alt on faerlina lmk!!
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Alliance alt sure, but I try to steer clear of the like of sodapoppin and assmongloid
i can understand that just know there is a guild on faerlina that will accept any class/spec combo
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kk! Could be tempted to come roll a ret pally or feral druid
This is why I don’t post on the WoW forums. Unfortunately, I can’t play at work, though.
Your problem is that your bringing a meta argument to a game thats been out 15 years and all the content has been analyzed and broken down.
People can do Onyxia with 20 people already, so wouldnt the most optimal choice be to run 20 man Onyxia runs from now on? No, because people just want raid. Very few are looking to test the limits of their specs and builds because theres no in game incentive.
You arent rewarded for killing a boss 1-2minutes faster. Less dps isnt going to prolong your raid time more than a player going afk for a bio. What, are you going to prohibit bathroom breaks or require them to be 30 seconds or less otherwise you’re cutting into your guild’s “rph”? No thatd be stupid because there are lockouts.
The point is while your math is right it doesn’t fundamentally change anything, because there is nothing like mythic plus that takes time into account. You can meta all you want but the game doesn’t incentivize it.
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Stop encouraging this. Clearly you don’t understand how important it is to kill raid bosses 10 seconds faster with optimal specs. /sarcasm
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People are continuing to confuse the claim that a spec is not viable (i.e. capable of outputting competitive DPS when compared to other classes played by players of similar skill) with the claim that you cannot down bosses or complete the raid with those specs in your group.
Once again for those of you in the back, you can complete a raid with a dead afk player in your group, but no one would claim that dead afk players are viable DPS. Similarly, no one is saying you can’t be successful with a Ret Paladin taking up a DPS slot, but that doesn’t mean they are viable DPS.
If your question is whether it’s possible to succeed with a particular spec in the party, the answer will always be yes. If your question is whether a particular spec is capable of outputting decent DPS, the answer for Ret Pallys and Enhance Shaman is no.
Hunters aren’t doing half or less the DPS of other classes. If they were, I would t play one because I don’t find it fun to be constantly behind people playing worse than me.
This is an invalid definition of “viable.” You can clear any content in the game with empty raid slots. That doesn’t mean that an empty raid slot is viable DPS. Acknowledging that some specs are not tuned to do adequate DPS is not being an elitist jerk. Bring those specs if you want to. I’m not even saying I would exclude them from raiding. I’m just saying it’s silly to claim that they are viable DPS when they are doing half the DPS of other melee DPS specs.
The only guilds that won’t let you do that is if you’re in a guild that’s pushing for the top raid progression.
The majority does not care.
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So wait, are you suggesting that people should take bathroom breaks during a boss fight instead of in between pulls?
Your entire post misses the point. Of course you can down bosses with Ret Pallys in your group just like you can down bosses with empty raid slots. Empty raid slots are not viable DPS and neither are Ret Pallys. You can complete raids with non-viable DPS in your group.
They are tuned to do “adequate” dps. Idc what you play but they are viable which means they can easily do all raid content. People expecting all players to play cookie cutter and min/max are the wrong ones. Viable means “capable of being successful” or “feasible”. Which they fit that to a T. There is no argument against it, and trying to only makes you sad and delusional. The very large majority of everyone I have ever talked to both in vanilla and in classic agree. These min/max kids are the vocal minority.
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Honestly this thread is a cluster %!$# at this point. It’s been covered to death that bosses can be fairly easily killed regardless of the raid comp. What is the difference between a boss dying in 3 mins or 4 mins? You all still get loot. If that Ret Pally gets genuine fun from their class, don’t stop them. If you’re not killing bosses in MC, you have MUCH bigger problems than that Ret Pally.
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Is a dead afk player viable DPS?
A dead afk player can easily do all raid content.
Your definition of “viable” in invalid. That’s your problem. No one is suggesting that you cannot complete a raid with them in the group. We are saying that no one has ever in the history of this game meant that they want it to be possible for a 40 man raid to succeed with them in the group when they asked to be “viable.”
And it’s been covered to death that that isn’t the standard for what it means to be viable.
The point, which you are still missing, is that a lot of people will roll Ret Pallys expecting to be able to do something resembling decent DPS because they’ve been assured that the spec is viable only to be disappointed to learn that their spec cannot pull half the DPS of similarly skilled melee DPS of other classes.
The correct answer to the question of whether they do viable DPS is:
“No, but the content isn’t hard enough for that to matter. If you enjoy it enough that you don’t care about being constantly at the bottom of meters and your raid group doesn’t care, have fun. Otherwise, consider rolling a different class.”
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Imagine using this argument because you can’t think of anything contextually important to what the other person is saying.
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