All specs are viable

[Samuel-mankrik]

@Darkfist-terokkar

@Zengaku-grobbulus

They are viable… just not optimal.

And I agree with his sentiment…

The Min/Max culture of this game will hurt it’s longevity. People have to realize the community is what makes this game… and if people constantly alienate others and try to OCD control their play-styles, it will contribute to this game dying

This isn’t about min/maxing. The problem isn’t that enhance shaman/Ret pallys are not optimal. The problem is that they do not bring anything to the table to justify their raid spot. They aren’t behind other classes by 15-20%. They are literally doing less than half the DPS of the top specs. This could be mitigated if they brought the kind of support to the table that could make up for that DPS loss, but they don’t. The difference between an enhance shaman’s totems and a resto shaman’s totems is minimal. Bringing an enhance shaman when other DPS or a resto shaman is available is always going to hurt your group.

Yes, a group can succeed with a Ret Pally or Enhance Shammy in the party, but they will always be succeeding in spite of the choice to bring those players instead of because of bringing them.

That’s what viable means. It means that a spec is built in such a way that, played well, you can make a meaningful contribution to the raid’s success. Otherwise you are just being carried. If you want to be carried instead of meaningfully contributing and you can find a raid group to carry you, then go nuts. That doesn’t change the reality that you are being carried though.

@Libra-faerlina

People in greens at level 55 are viable but the pre raid bis pally isnt.
ok
First sulfuras NA is with a ret pally btw. He also uses greens.

Average Ret Pally parses are WAY behind other classes. At the 75th percentile, the average Ret Pally is doing less than half of what the average Rogue or Fury Warrior does. It’s not any better at the 90th percentile. For some reason it isn’t letting me link the log rankings for Lucifron to illustrate this, but the difference between the top specs and these non viable specs at the 75th percentile is:

Fury War = 536.22
Assassination Rogue = 473.50
Combat Rogue = 458.86
Ret Pally = 213.21

At the 90the percentile it’s:

Fury Warrior = 696.03
Assassination Rogue = 603.45
Combat Rogue = 472.88
Ret Pally = 256.06

Yes, your group can succeed with you being carried by the raid as a Ret Pally, but you are being carried. That’s the point. That is what it means to say that Ret isn’t viable.

@Bomm-dunemaul

considering the amount of people complaining content is too easy, i would say everything is rather viable.

See above. Yes, you can down bosses with a carry in the group, but the point is that a Ret Pally or Enhance Shaman is always being carried by their raid. They are not meaningfully contributing to the success of the group. You can succeed in spite of their presence, but never because of it.

IF that was so important to you… why arent you playing a warrior?
I mean hunter isnt exactly pushing for top spots on DPS meters is it?