Afrasiabi Sylvanas interview

Lore Story Forum
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https://www.eurogamer.net/amp/2018-11-08-world-of-warcraft-and-the-masterplan-for-sylvanas

Let me just start with just in case you were still in doubt, it’s now been further confirmed that Wrathgate was indeed planned by Sylvanas herself.(this was confirmed in chronicle 3, i believe, but this further supports it)

I've been writing Sylvanas personally since 2006, and this is pretty much - the Wrathgate and the Blight and the Forsaken - in character. Those were all under Sylvanas' orders.


I know that there has been more than enough Sylvanas threads over the course of BfA, and i’ve done this song-and-dance many times already, but by god this is annoying.

Like, why do they WANT the Horde playerbase divided?! Who the hell WANTS to be divided? We’ve been divided for years!!! I want to be a UNITED HORDE! Have the Alliance be divided for once, i want to feel like my actions are for a good cause. Not because an angsty, paranoid, Warchief wants us to.

It’s literally been said by almost everyone on this forum but NO ONE wants another civil war arc, if we didn’t do this arc literally 2 expansions ago, no one would have such an issue with it. Yet, unlike with Garrosh, not only do we have almost no choice in the matter but we’re actually being forced to be even MORE evil than him. Seriously, Garrosh could resseruct himself and re-join the Horde without question if our standard has become THIS low.

In fact, this is literally the same thing that Marvel did. For those who are unfamiliar, does anyone know about the Civil war arc? They based the second Captain america on the story as well as the Ultimate Alliance games. Well Marvel tried cashing in on the popularity if this story and created a Civil War 2 arc. Let’s just say it wasn’t very well received.

However in this case, the civil war arc, while mixed, was still relatively well executed all things considered mostly due to Vol’jin having a great character arc. While people still have mixed feelings due the blatant villain batting of Garrosh, most people agree that Vol’jin was the highlight of the expansion. So it was unsurprisingly well received when Vol’jin was declared the new Warchief at the end of it all. A fitting payoff for his arc and a great way to move the Horde foward as a faction by having the first non-orc warchief.

So of course, at the start of Legion, they had to throw all of that in the garbage cuz Kosak couldn't keep it in his pants, and they decied to start this divisive story by making the controversial decision of making Sylvanas Warchief. A decision that i believe is what got him booted from the WoW team and put on Hearthstone instead. Now, i love Kosak, he’s truly a nice guy and is very passionate for Blizzard games and he is been the best thing that’s happened to hearthstone(especially since Big B. Left), but he totally fuked the whole story with this one decision. And now here we are.

I just don’t know what i can say that hasn’t been said before, but I’ll do my best. How come they didn’t at all cater to Garrosh fans but they’ve gone so far out of their way for Sylvanas fans?? I mean wtf, looking back, the only difference between him and Sylvanas is that Garrosh was biggoted and racist while Sylvanas is manipulative and outright cruel. I don’t get how ANYONE is supposed to be able to follow her other than dedicated fans of the character, which i get, you’ve known a character for over a decade people tend to not want to let go. But for anyone else, she murders a field full of her own civilians for wanting to be with their living families and then reveals she needs her people to be miserable so that they’d stay loyal to her, mocks Saurfang about his dead son, kills and raises horde troops, burns an entire world tree full of unarmed civilians, the list goes on. How the heck am i supposed to call myself a hero following someone like that, or even an anti-hero for this matter?

It’s absurd how they think they’re being clever when in reality they’re just pissing people off on both sides.
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Down with Sylvanas! For the honor of the Horde!
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11/11/2018 06:27 PMPosted by Pyrogar
So of course, at the start of Legion, they had to throw all of that in the garbage cuz Kosak couldn't keep it in his pants, and they decied to start this divisive story by making the controversial decision of making Sylvanas Warchief. A decision that i believe is what got him booted from the WoW team and put on Hearthstone instead. Now, i love Kosak, he’s truly a nice guy and is very passionate for Blizzard games and he is been the best thing that’s happened to hearthstone(especially since Big B. Left), but he totally fuked the whole story with this one decision. And now here we are.


Honestly without the tin foil hats, I believe Blizzard thought there couldn't be a faction war without Sylvanas being Warchief. I just think their writing team is either bad or just very simple minded. I honestly don't believe making Sylvanas was a knee jerk reaction due to some developer liking the character cause lets face it, Blizzard in general really like the character, they built a statue of said character.
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I wonder just if one's nostalgia could easily die, especially with the company's future at this point depending on that nostalgia.
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11/11/2018 07:13 PMPosted by Lkilled
I wonder just if one's nostalgia could easily die, especially with the company's future at this point depending on that nostalgia.
Who's the nostalgia in this scenario?
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11/11/2018 07:16 PMPosted by Grandblade
11/11/2018 07:13 PMPosted by Lkilled
I wonder just if one's nostalgia could easily die, especially with the company's future at this point depending on that nostalgia.
Who's the nostalgia in this scenario?


Warcraft III Reforged and WoW classic.
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How sure are we that this interview is real? I've only seen it mentioned on Eurogamer, whose credibility is... kinda iffy.

When and where at Blizzcon did it happen? Is there footage(there's usually footage)?

Everything in it is technically plausible, mostly because blizz has basically been pooping the bed, storywise, for the whole expansion, but it seems... out of character, if you will, that Afrasiabi would actually be glad to see the Horde so divided, instead of regarding it as the price of the story they wanted to tell. Afrasiabi has always struck me as a decently nice guy, so deliberately tormenting the players seems like a reach.
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Reason we're having a second civil war is because the first one didn't solve any of the Horde's actual issues. The Horde always had civil strife, Kalimdor Horde vs Eastern Horde. The Horde has always been divided ever since some "genius" in the dev team wether it was old or new, decided to have the Forsaken join the Horde.

The Forsaken have always been evil and not follow the Horde's honor but since they were undead they were "good enough." Ever since we've had internal strife because hey what do ya know, a nation with radical opposite views doesn't get along. The Forsaken should have been a third faction, if not then they made better NPCs to take up the Scarlet Crusade position. A group of evil NPCs that hate everyone especially the Scourge? That's Forsaken written all over it.

If they were forced to join then they should have developed a sense of honor through out the expansions. However "Muh Honor" interferes with their "Muh Pragmatism." Even though that HONOR was the VERY CORE of the Horde. The Forsaken should have never been part of the Horde if they didn't want to change, it just caused so much huge internal problems. Internal problems are great, keeps things interesting, but not radically opposed views.
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11/11/2018 07:34 PMPosted by Kirango
How sure are we that this interview is real? I've only seen it mentioned on Eurogamer, whose credibility is... kinda iffy.

When and where at Blizzcon did it happen? Is there footage(there's usually footage)?

Everything in it is technically plausible, mostly because blizz has basically been pooping the bed, storywise, for the whole expansion, but it seems... out of character, if you will, that Afrasiabi would actually be glad to see the Horde so divided, instead of regarding it as the price of the story they wanted to tell. Afrasiabi has always struck me as a decently nice guy, so deliberately tormenting the players seems like a reach.


Kirango, I get where you are coming from, but honestly there may not be a video. This was an interview, not a panel. Not all interviews are video, mostly those who are streamers have video based interviews. Pubs like eurogamer more often than not don't do that kind of format.
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The playerbase seems to be A LOT more engaged over this story than fighting a giant evil. They have to use it sparingly but it sure is a massive stimulant for engagement.

As cool as Mechagon is and how much awesome lore it may have, I doubt it’ll get much General player attention since people don’t have an emotional attachment to it.

Tl;dr, people say they don’t like the conflict but the numbers (amount of discussion amongst players) seem to say otherwise.

I’d also argue that the Horde playerbase has always been divided even if it rarely is shown. Some want to be the good guy monsters. Others want to be “me orc! Me smash!” And my guess is there’s a large amount of players on both sides.
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It would be nice to matter to the story for once as more than a puppy for the Horde to kick.
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Discussion amongst players isn't a good thing when the vast majority of discussion is anti-company.
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11/11/2018 07:36 PMPosted by Mannec
Reason we're having a second civil war is because the first one didn't solve any of the Horde's actual issues. The Horde always had civil strife, Kalimdor Horde vs Eastern Horde. The Horde has always been divided ever since some "genius" in the dev team wether it was old or new, decided to have the Forsaken join the Horde.

The Forsaken have always been evil and not follow the Horde's honor but since they were undead they were "good enough." Ever since we've had internal strife because hey what do ya know, a nation with radical opposite views doesn't get along. The Forsaken should have been a third faction, if not then they made better NPCs to take up the Scarlet Crusade position. A group of evil NPCs that hate everyone especially the Scourge? That's Forsaken written all over it.

If they were forced to join then they should have developed a sense of honor through out the expansions. However "Muh Honor" interferes with their "Muh Pragmatism." Even though that HONOR was the VERY CORE of the Horde. The Forsaken should have never been part of the Horde if they didn't want to change, it just caused so much huge internal problems. Internal problems are great, keeps things interesting, but not radically opposed views.
audience_rising_and_clapping.gif
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11/11/2018 08:33 PMPosted by Xisa
It would be nice to matter to the story for once as more than a puppy for the Horde to kick.


HEY! How'd you get out of your cage? TO THE FURNACE!
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11/11/2018 07:36 PMPosted by Mannec
Reason we're having a second civil war is because the first one didn't solve any of the Horde's actual issues. The Horde always had civil strife, Kalimdor Horde vs Eastern Horde. The Horde has always been divided ever since some "genius" in the dev team wether it was old or new, decided to have the Forsaken join the Horde.

The Forsaken have always been evil and not follow the Horde's honor but since they were undead they were "good enough." Ever since we've had internal strife because hey what do ya know, a nation with radical opposite views doesn't get along. The Forsaken should have been a third faction, if not then they made better NPCs to take up the Scarlet Crusade position. A group of evil NPCs that hate everyone especially the Scourge? That's Forsaken written all over it.

If they were forced to join then they should have developed a sense of honor through out the expansions. However "Muh Honor" interferes with their "Muh Pragmatism." Even though that HONOR was the VERY CORE of the Horde. The Forsaken should have never been part of the Horde if they didn't want to change, it just caused so much huge internal problems. Internal problems are great, keeps things interesting, but not radically opposed views.
wow someone who actually figured out the story!
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11/11/2018 07:36 PMPosted by Mannec
The Forsaken should have never been part of the Horde if they didn't want to change, it just caused so much huge internal problems. Internal problems are great, keeps things interesting, but not radically opposed views.


Except the Forsaken didn't change because there wasn't a force on them to change, either within narrative (very few members of the western horde were active in the east, leading to large scale strategic freedom on the Forsaken command) or outside of narrative (since Blizzard never writes about cultures or peoples, they write about characters).
And of course, the goblins literally prove this sentiment wrong because they are also a morally bankrupt race with strong connections to the Horde who care nothing for ideas of honour.
But whatever, blame the Forsaken for Blizzard's weaknesses; not like that doesn't happen every week.
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The interview says that Afrasiabi believes her ending up as a Raid Boss would be a letdown for Alex Afrasiabi so clearly he wants her to have a grander exit if anything!

Deathwing ended up as not 1 but 2 Raid Bosses! I wonder how many Raid Bosses Sylvanas could end up as?... Sylvanas has 2 Prime Valkyr left and most likely has been empowering them.

Let's not forget that once she's in the Shadowlands she is going to be frantic and the true enemy is definitely going to exploit it so we might get 3 Encounters against her!
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11/11/2018 09:22 PMPosted by Yvenathilm
Sylvanas has 2 Prime Valkyr left and most likely has been empowering them.
3. 3 left.
Starting off, 9
One died off the bat, 8
Three died in Silverpine, 5
One died in Andorhal, 4
One dies in Darkshore, 3

Unless I'm missing one, that still leaves her barely weakened from where she was in Cataclysm. Heck, she's probably stronger if she's reainmating Orcs and Night Elves and twisting them to her side. For all intents and purposes, unless that number hits 0, nothing has changed.
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Gonna copy a post from another thread.

I feel like Afrasiabi needs to understand that even if people feel divided on their support for Sylvanas/Saurfang, they're generally disappointed or frustrated in both.

The measure of success should not be parity in support, but whether or not people enjoy supporting their leaders.

Go take a look at the various "Who will you choose?" threads. It sounds like a bunch of protest-votes.

It's common to hear from Sylvanas supporters that they wish she had never been made Warchief, feel like she's losing her redeeming qualities, or think she's ruining other elements of the Horde. The sensation of defeat and depression is palpable. They mostly choose her over Saurfang out of fear that choosing Saurfang would stifle any chance of her restoration as a character they like.

On the flip side, it's common to hear from Saurfang supporters that they hate his connection to the Alliance/Anduin, disapprove of his delayed response to dealing with Sylvanas, and think it's nonsensical for him too declare back-stabbing Malfurion a dishonorable act after he unleashed siege equipment on Night Elves in Ashenvale. However, he is still their best chance to inject some moral fiber into the Horde's story.

Blizzard has to understand, at large the Horde playerbase is NOT ENJOYING THE EXPANSION. Which should be concerning.

Some people might love the story, but they seem to be a minority. Everyone else is coming to the forums to try and advocate for their own version of damage control.

The developers need to stop patting themselves on the back, acknowledge their short comings, and ask the playerbase how they'd like to see the story progress.
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We’ve known about this for days. Aren’t we confused over whether or not he misspoke about Wrathgate?