I just don’t think she is well done, just generic.
Was Crusader
Was Raised
Was in denial
Rejected by those in her old life
goes on murder spree
There just… Isn’t much too it. The emotional weight of it is surface level. I feel like you can do a lot more with a risen Crusader, but Lilian’s motivations are just pure pettiness.
Does she hate Necromancers because she resents her fate as one risen from the dead? Then why do we not see her objecting to or doing anything about Sylvanas’ use of the Val’kyr?
Does she hate the Crusade because she sees the value of the undead as living, autonomous beings? Or merely just because she was going to be on the wrong end of their mission… A mission she subscribed too in life?
And -if- she resents her undeath, why not then just submit to the Crusade like she had done in every other aspect of her life? And -if- she sees the forsaken as valuable, autonomous people, then why would she object to the raising of more?
Her motivations are in conflict.
I mean, there is very little different to her and the Crusade, both have goals of particular faction extermination. I feel like, if one is zealous enough to join the Crusade, they shouldn’t be the least bit surprised that the Crusade rejects them as a risen. 9 times out of 10 they’d probably just accept their fate.
Lillian Voss, to me, is just too… Mary Sue, Comic Booky, and shallow as a character with conflicting motivations that don’t really serve the story in any meaningful way.
Have they -ever- explained why Gazlowe is the trade prince of a separate Cartel now lol?
There was no relevant Bilgewater character. That’s why.
No relevant character outside of the racial leader is one of those persistent problems WoW’s writing has been having unfortunately.
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Yeah specially if the rumored Cata event happens after DF… 
Anyway for the most part I posted things I have discuses with my friends as I play in WoW story and our own “headcanon” of each of our character after SL… super engaging for us. DF seems to feed those RP feels…(IMO) 
Trying to perfect my Affliction petless Shadow Vampire Built that my friends challenge me to make to play into their personal RPG story with the Darkfallen skin… and its been very fun even got me to PvP on my Lock… and I usually dislike PvP but me roleplaying a Warlock Void Elf Darkfallen Affliction… it actually fits the in character narrative! 
Still wish the Darkfallen skin would trigger tiny txt dialogs of my character being undead… its a bit off putting (RPG wise) being called mortal! The nerver, I even feed on demons in my Petless built how DARE you call ME mortal!!! (Joking but you get the idea 
)
And when I’m busy I just come here to read to ease the stress and get ideas also… some theories and speculation no matter how silly are very good for RPG or tiny bits of worldbuilding stories! 
Opps got carried away again, it was suppose to be a short answer… lol oh well, hope your having fun in DF too! 
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“Someone’s gotta be the Goblin lead and we didn’t do crap to build up any potential successor”
Kind of a shame he isn’t getting any spotlight in DF given his toolkit would have actually fit in really well with the Crafters/explorers going to the isles.
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“There must always be. . . . A goblin king!” Is that how the line goes?
I’d be more afraid of an unleashed goblindom free from any hierarchy/economic based reasons to not just develop and shoot off increasingly bigger explosives at will than I am of the scourge running loose.
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Gazlowe isn’t even a better Goblin. He’s just better compared to Gallywix and riding high on the fact that some Horde may recognize him from Ratchet.
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On a meta level, its because he’s the only Gob with any level of development outside Wix. Sassy and Mida aren’t ready. And frankly had Gobs been playable since the start, Lowe would have been the Racial Leader long ago. Bluntly, while Wix was a great character, he was a horrible racial leader. He rendered the Entire Bilgewater greed filled lemmings who just died on mass for his antics; and distilled the Goblin PC race down to its worst traits only. Not any of the positives. Do you know how much it sucked to have the enemy of our intro story arbitrarily be our Racial Leader for over a decade, and for every “Good Gob” up and leaving/abandoning/or never being a part of the one Playable Cartel? It was one-note greed with none of the intellect.
On a more story driven level. Cartels aren’t tribes. They’re businesses, plain and simple. During the Trade and Peace Wars Cartels likely rose, fell, and changed hands many times. And since Kezan & presumably the Undermine blew up, there are only a handful of Cartels left. The Bilgewater, the Steamwheedle, and the Venture Co. Its honestly not a big deal that Gazlowe, the closest thing to a WC3 legacy Goblins players have, was made Trade Prince of the BW. While I’d wager, and am happy for it, Wix is likely slated to take over as the “Trade Prince” of the Venture Co., given we kill their Cartel Leader in the BfA Motherload dungeon. And Wix was working very closely with that group before burning all his incriminating docs and bouncing.
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He is, though.
Gazlowe -is- a better goblin. He’s likely the best Trade Prince currently around. He’s better than Gallywix in every regard, the old Trade Prince just can’t compete.
Gazlowe is a rare example of a fair goblin employer: allowing unions among his employees, willing to give them days off and full pay[9] and convinced that a good boss has to respect his crew in order to get their own respect back.[10] His workers are given hazard pay,[11] but he is not willing to see good crew die. For the lost, he gives insurance to their families, with full value and no haggling.[12] Gazlowe expects the best from his crews, so he pays them what they’re worth and treats them well. In return, he has the best goblin crews on the planet, and they are not going over to any competition.[13]
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And that sort of behavior from him isn’t new to BfA either. He’s always been very close to Horde, and charges them very reasonably for his services. He undercut his normal rates drastically to fund the forces/mercenaries Baine used to retake TB during the Grimtotem Rebellion; purely because of Gazlowe’s relationship and respect for Cairne. Gazlowe IS a businessman, but he’s not only unusually fair in his Business Practices for a Gob … but unlike Wix is actually immensely tech savvy. Good Guy Gazlowe existed far before BfA.
And … strangely, as underdeveloped as she was as a character (and I hate Blizz for keeping her this way), Boss Mida was shown ages to enjoy working with Gazlowe. Sassy was revealed in the Gob heritage questline to also respect him. And these were the only two other Gobs that could have headed the Bilgewater after Wix THANKFULLY left. I loved Wix as a character, I hated him as a Racial Lead. I’m happy he’s alive, glad he’s gone.
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Pretty much, yeah. And it’s not like the Alliance has done anything that’d help improve his view of the men and women in blue and gold, either. They’ve attempted to block the Horde from entering Ratchet and trading with it, cutting Gazlowe out of profit.
Both of them are good characters, but Gazlowe’s just a better candidate for the position of Trade Prince in every way.
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Entire essays can be written on characters who were created and used in introductory questlines/zones for certain races and/or classes that were sadly barely ever heard from again.
Darius Crowley and his daughter.
Aysa Cloudsinger and Ji Firepaw.
From the Goblin starting areas, Sassy Hardwrench was your character’s assistant/secretary and provider of most of the questing from start to finish. She was brilliantly delivered through that questline and honestly should have had more going for her up to and including replacing Gallywix as Trade Prince(ess) of the Bilgewater Cartel.
Instead Blizzard put her in her own town in South Stranglethorn with a few quests and otherwise forgot she existed.
Such a shame.
EDIT: Gazlowe was always a member of the Steamwheedle Cartel up until they had him replace Gallywix for…reasons.
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I hope you don’t think I am defending Gallywix, I just don’t think Goblins are ethical on any level. It’s clear they only care about the bottom line.
You’re talking about a race enslaved for over 3000 years, who’s entire technological civilization as it currently exists is only a little over 130 years old. I’m not kidding. It makes sense they’re a bit obsessed with material wealth. Goblins are THE biggest underdog PC race in this game IMO. The world was cruel, and brutal, and unforgiving, and the only “blessing” they were ever given was intergenerational exposure to the very same toxic heavy metals they were forced to mine; that would eventually give them their intellect enough to free themselves. This gen of Goblins aren’t the ones Mimiron experimented on.
Truly, they’ve got some massively negative downsides. Are reckless, destructive, and far too in a rush. But while they are far too often used as a Joke Race, there is some really interesting meat in their racial history and settup. And its why they are my fav PC race. What they’ve accomplished in just 130 years is downright amazing. For comparison, post slavery Goblin civ is roughly .9 percent of Tyrande’s estimated age.
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thanks for saying the quiet part out loud Dread.
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That’s a screw-up that goes back to Cata, not Legion. The val’kyr sisterhood-in-suffering thing could’ve been a good idea, but using them to raise new undead torpedoed most of the race’s sympathy by making Sylvanas a hypocrite.
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When was she not? Like, I’m sorry, but as much as SLs sucked, Sylvie is always a raving hypocrite. Especially after Edge of Night, when its plainly revealed that she pulled a good ol “Sylvie Special” on the Forsaken too. It wasn’t just the Horde and Alliance she was using as tools for personal objectives, with the intent to discard them should they ever cease to be of sufficient use. The only reason people didn’t care before was that she had largely just been pulling that stunt against jerks like Garithos or Datheroc. Its kind of her thing tho.
Honestly, I was lowkey hoping that it was Yogg messing with her; and the Val’kyr were his. They were bound to a building made of his blood; she smashed herself to pieces on the same building; they were there the entire time Sylvie was experiencing her “afterlife”; and Yogg’s mortal visage was of a Female Vrykul. So rather than her “seeing the world as it really was” … it was Yogg through HIS Val’kyr that made her see what he wanted her to.
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It’s cool how this thread is just a topic randomizer, leave it for a day and its about a whole new thing.
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