So explain this to me. How does allowing the game to hold your hand for you make you a good player? I’m talking about add-ons. Dbm tells you when to use a defensive or not stand in something. Max dps tells you what buttons to push. There’s even one that basically lets you click a box and remove curses and debuffs. There are a plethora of other add-ons that trivialize the game removing the “skill” from a lot of end game content.
So how does that make you a good player? The on going argument of which is better in terms of skill cap between wow and FF14 is saddening. See in FF14 we don’t get add-ons. We get ban for using them. We have to learn our rotations we have to learn what tank busters are which. We have to learn how to do everything. Nothing is handed to us. Between the two games in their current state FF14 requires a lot more thought and attention to what’s going on than wow does. So my verdict is wow is a training wheels mmo. You wanna flex your skill? Go clear savage/unreal/ultimate synced without getting the you’re bad debuff. Yes we also get a debuff for not following mechanics that makes you take increased damage stacking up to 5 times. Wow doesn’t have that… Just saying.
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Sorry dude but Savage is not anywhere near mythic raiding’s level. Its downed by party finders. Its downed by premades on day 1.
I’ve progged and downed all of Savage Arcadian recently, first tier I actually raided in FF14. It comes no where close. It’s fun! I’m not saying progging FF14 savage isn’t fun! FF14 has very cool dances, but positioning seems to be the only mechanic that it focuses itself on. Where’s the dispels and interrupts? Almost no AOE situations exist. Battle raising has infinite uses. The list goes on. WoW’s mechanics are so far beyond just positioning and dances that penultimates and final bosses will still take guilds hundreds of attempts. FF14 is “I learned about the next mechanic through visuals, now I know where to move for the next 10-45 seconds”.
WoW has more bosses per tier. WoW requires way more guild management(20 man vs 8 man, which btw means more class representation in mythic raiding). WoW is perfection in this area.
Props to the Ultimates, they’re as hard as the most notorious mythic endbosses(Sha of Fear, Kil’Jaeden), but they’ve now had 3 ultimates world races in a row scuffed by mod usage. And they get 1 ultimate fight every, what, 2 years?
I love both games but I need to maintain the hell out of my WoW guild constantly. I’ll probably never see my Arcadian static again, and find a new group to prog with next savage tier. and it will be easy to do so. That’s the hallmark of a way easier game.
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I don’t use dps add ons or macro’s It was a strong learning curve and one thing I like about pvp is ur buttons are situational.
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I use FarmHud to go fishing, now I feel bad about myself
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A long winded self congratulations post.
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It’s not good for the shoulder tendons when someone pats themselves on the back that hard.
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Surviving 16 stacks of vulnerability is an achievement. Dying and taking damage down is not.
Either way, if add-ons made people good at the game, everyone would be CE now. The argument that add-ons are required or make people ‘skilled’ isn’t a real argument because you can have every add-on in the world and still play poorly.
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hey you reading my diary?
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Great. Now I have WoW guilt…
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As you should you lazy, unskilled, fishin’ son of a gun. /s
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In the old days we played Everquest, raid size 72, no addons and walked uphill knee deep in snow both coming and going!
It was like herding cats sometimes and everybody had to know the fights and their class and we liked it!
Joking aside, I like having the option to use addons if I want.
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I don’t actually care that I’m a bad player, even with addons.
Nope, not really.
You can always you know, go play FF…I don’t see anyone holding you back dear.
Just saying.
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Don’t need DBM if you have a respectable attention span n learn the fights. 
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I am not for removing addons however I think they should be heavily toned down. In the cases you mention I think once it becomes clear those addons are basically a requirement to play the game they should have their functionality absorbed and the addons rendered broken, or the fact an addon is so heavily leaned on suggests the content itself is not designed well. Also the auction near-automation should be either broken entirely or heavily toned down.
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Why are you collecting vuln stacks like they are pokemon cards?
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is this the monthly add ons needs to be ban thread?
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It doesn’t. It lets you get results. Which is what modern gamers are trained to want. Who cares about gitting gud when you get git lewtz. lawl.
I stopped using DBM a long, LONG time ago. I still executed mechanics in the upper decile of WoW players. And now, WoW has basically baked-in DBM with automatic raid warning and all the extremely obvious circles and ground effects. Genuinely don’t understand why anyone needs DBM any more. I guess the timers can be kind of useful, but far from a necessity.
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Addons make up for the gross lack of clarity by blizz mechanics and UI.
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A FF14 shill thread…
Get to 80, go for CE and see how much you feel the addons trivialize the game for you.
The game and difficulty are built around the addons. You can argue the merit as to whether Blizz should or should not be designing content around them. Idk how far or how long ago you’ve pushed any meaningful content in WoW but judging by your OP post, some of the addons that you reference havent been mainstream addons for a while. A “box you can click to remove curses”…Decursive has been obsolete for expansions.
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