Does anyone think there are some potential Horde leaders WHO ARE STILL AROUND and NOT evil, who could fill some seats within the Hordes’ leadership roster going forward?
As always, I still passionately feel that whenever they get around to her, that Thura should totally take up her late uncles’ mantle of High Overlord of the Horde, charged enforcing the Hordes’ will with the Axe of Cenarius in hand.
I also passionately desire to see Jorin Deadeye take up some role of leadership within the Horde as Chieftan of the Bleeding Hallow, the very clan my OC hails from. Bring back some clan identity the MU Orcs, that has imo, has kinda homogenized and takes away from alot of the interesting history and lore behind the Orcish peoples. Ik it’s supposed to be a theme that clan identity has faded from the consciousness of the MU/Green Orcs due to spending time in internment camps, but I feel as though it’s been long enough being a green blob of dudes with axes and it’s time to bring some more unique facets of Orcish culture back to the forefront. How about to Bleeding Hallow sorcerers utilizing ancient blood magics. Jorin would be the start to that, much of the new characters they’ve introduced have largely been bland, uninspired, and just overall uninteresting(except you, NB squad, you’re ok in my book) I feel the Horde needs more representation from its roots.
I could think of plenty more, but then this wouldn’t be a discussion thread.
Cartels aren’t tribes, or nations, or families. I would wager during the Cartel Wars Cartels, rose, fell, and changed hands many times. There is nothing fundamentally wrong within Goblin society for Gazlowe to become trade prince of the cartel. There were also no developed Bilgewater reps that could do it. In part due to the type of oppressive character Wix was.
Sassy. It’s not like I hate Gazlowe though, that just shows you how little thought they put into this council. I did honestly like him more as pseudo-neutral.
Sassy hasn’t been touched as a character since the Cata intro sadly (outside of a bit part in the Goblin heritage line). Mida isn’t far behind her, and at least she’s more active on Kalimdor. Regardless, Gazlowe is the single most histories Goblin with the Horde in the franchise. He’s got a great VA (Travis Willingham). And he probably would have been our Goblin leader had they been a playable race in Vanilla.
As a massive Goblin fan, I love that he’s our Trade Prince. I could give a crap about him remaining “Neutral” … when he’s the guy who Built Org twice. The guy has always been super Horde leaning, they just made it official. Plus, I figure if the NEs ever figure out the Steamwheedle were funding the Horde’s 4th War effort under the table … business for the Kali branches will dry up pretty heavily from the Blues at least. I’m not sure Everlook would survive that truthbomb.
Yes, this is the problem. They had multiple characters they could have brought forward, and instead they went with one from a completely different cartel because they weren’t thinking about anything but moving on quickly and hoping BfA could be swept under the rug. Hell, Kiro has just about as much character as either of them and he gets a seat.
Beyond the whole “as a black man” portion of this, I find it hard to believe since you’re fine with them squandering the race.
Why? They’ve been getting squandered for ages. The only stories the Bilgewater were allowed under Gallywix was them dying by the hundreds for his schemes. If you ever wanted a Goblin story with them showing an ounce of intelligence, you always had to turn to the Neutral Steamwheedle. And yet the Goblin intro to Mechagon alone was some of the best Goblin writing we’ve had in ages. Combine that with the Heritage Questline, and we had more Goblin personalities and characters within maybe 45 mins of content than we have had in 10 years?
Gazlowe has thus far brought nothing but positives.
Neutral anyone really, but that’s something that coulda been actually addressed here. Instead they just throw out Gazlowe because they obviously couldn’t care less. That’s why.
You’re making an issue out of nothing, because Goblin cartels don’t operate like that. They don’t care if you’re from another Cartel. They aren’t families. They aren’t clans. They’re businesses, and cooperate takeovers are a thing. There are also like 3 actual Cartels left that we know of after the destruction of Kezan and the Undermine, so there aren’t a lot of Trade Prince titles up for grabs. Which is why Wix is likely to get settup as the leader of the Venture Co.
You’re the one making a stink out of “neutrality”, despite Gazlowe’s absurd history with the Horde. I would love for Mida or Sassy to get further development, but there are no Goblins in the Horde’s history with more of a legacy with the faction.
Nazgrel hasn’t done anything since BC, but he seems like the kind of Orc the Horde could use. Someone willing to give peace a shot if people he respects ask him to, but not someone who will let the Horde be pushed around.
Forsaken-side I think Belmont could be the flip-side of the Calia/Voss Forsaken. Someone the rest of the Horde perhaps justifiably doesn’t trust, but ultimately any shady operation he greenlights is something he genuinely believes is in the best interests of his people. He’d also be a way to explore how those Forsaken who were loyal to Sylvanas are handling things, since neither Calia nor Voss ever were.
I’ve already said it multiple times that I like Gazlowe. I did prefer him as pseudo-neutral but him going full Horde isn’t what bothers me. What bothers me is they obviously couldn’t care less. Gazlowe is the laziest and least fitting but easiest option they had in hand.
Its easy sure, but its also the most reasonable choice. People love Gazlowe, especially thanks to HotS. He’s got an enormous legacy with the Horde Faction, but has been forced to sit on his hands in game … for about 16 years. He’s also canonically had really good relations with Goblins from nearly every Cartel. Its not a huge stretch they chose him, and it will only be lazy if they don’t ever invest in him. Which … is another, bigger issue.
I thought the horde-side intro to Mechagon with Gazlowe felt incredibly ham-handed over how much of a “nicey nice capitalist” the story was fluffing him with. I remember disliking it a lot. It felt like the entire purpose was to scream “Look how not-Gallywix I am.”
I also agree with Elrythria in that I preferred him being horde-leaning neutral. It feels like there are hardly any characters in that kind of spot to begin with.
I mean, that’s always been his character though. He’s always had a soft spot for the Horde. He’s even given massive discounts for his services, or refused to upcharge when it comes to certain characters within the Horde. He’s always treated his crew better than Wix. Its not abnormal for his character to act the way he did on Mechagon. And frankly, Goblins are shrewd and greedy, but Wix has always been portrayed as an absurd extreme. It actually got kind of ridiculous how he remained our leader … and that Blizz kept writing other, more competent Goblin bosses who actively hate or “nothing” him on every single other Goblin faction.
As for your other point. Alliance-Neutral in the case of characters like Gazlowe only benefits the Alliance. The guy would have been the PC Racial leader if Gobs were playable from Vanilla without a doubt; and his “neutrality” has always absurdly favored the Horde AND has rendered him an inert character for ages. Outside of WoD, where he was already leading Horde Forces alongside Rokhan in some quests. This really was just pulling off a long overdue bandaid with him.
Do you mean horde-neutral?
But anyway, I don’t see how using Gazlowe in a horde-neutral way only benefits the alliance. To flip it around, would you say that Illidan’s use in Legion only benefited horde players? Or Khadgar?
But in this case Gazlowe isn’t a plot heavy lore character like Legion or Khadgar. He’s not going to be intimately tied to a World Ending Greater Good plotline, and his only relevance he’s ever really found in the story has I think exclusively come from his interactions with the Horde. His remaining Neutral for the Alliance essentially equates to … a port they are allowed access to the Barrens with? Its not like he ever interacts with them beyond that.
And working with the Alliance-Alliance/Neutrals so heavily in Legion was pretty atrocious, because its become uncomfortable how much working with Alliance-Alliance/Neutral reps has become synonymous with the massive neglect Blizz has shown the Horde’s characters for the last decade. If the Alliance maybe losing access to a port full of Goblins they never interact with is the cost to get a WC3 legacy character back fully into the Horde … I’ll pay that in an instant.
EDIT: And don’t take this as “I don’t want Bilgewater characters developed”. I’d love for Blizz to choose either Sassy and/or Mida and just go ham with them. But, they aren’t even close to ready to lead the Cartel. Part of that is due to the neglect, but part of that is also due to Gallywix’s character himself. He naturally suppressed variety within the Bilgewater because it was written so he’d piss off, ostracize, or just kill off any Goblin smart enough to not put up with his BS.
The Black Bride should take over for the Forsaken. She has been leading troops in battle since vanilla. She has been around since their foundation - she isn’t some new comer who was gallivanting about. Calia and Voss just waltz in and call the shots, when there are better candidates. Bleh.
On the topic of Gazlowe, I sort of split the baby. He fits fine, but Blizz did make his promotion a bit lame.
I agree. By all rights, Gazlowe is alright as leader. He isn’t just made up on the spot or pulled out of no where. He has a history with the Horde. Perhaps he is a bit more boring than Gallywix, but that is what Blizzard was going for.
I don’t take much issue with Gazlowe stepping in once the position became open. Except I was a bit irritated at Mechagon…
Indeed. It was hammer fisted down our throats that Gazlowe pays well, he over pays in fact, he works with unions - he is just the bestest nicest Goblin Capitalist who does everything right!
It is a small quibble on the scale of things. They were mostly trying to make Gallywix look even worse by contrast. On the grand scale of things, Gazlowe is fine.
As a side note, I am VERY happy Gallywix is still alive and well. I love him as a character as much as I hated him as my PC Racial Leader. I would adore seeing him become the Trade Prince of the Venture Co since their leader died in BfA, and really revel with a group that better fits his business style. He’ll get to be what he was always supposed to be. A fun, goofy, sometimes brutal reoccurring antagonist for the Bilgewater’s story.
EDIT: Also, I’m not sure Wix needed to look worse. He enslaved his own people on two exploding Volcanos, and the message of the short story that was supposed to make him look better … actually made him kind of look worse if you revisited how the story started out. Where he implies he would not give up what saw as his without value, but his threshold for sufficient value for his own peoples lives was as low as “him getting drunk on a blimp again and bombing them”.
Temporary Black Out Drunk entertainment value was the price that needed to be paid to slaughter his own people HIMSELF en-mass. Entertaining as that is, terrible leader.
