Add death knights to TBC

[Sotirios-pagle]

Just play retail, problem solved

[Frosto-faerlina]

You’ve got some good opinions. There are some I disagree with, as obviously you disagree with some of mine. That’s all fine, and I’d sort of like to respond to everything, but at the same time, most of it is a little off-topic.

However, I think you’ve done a great job of identifying a problem:

@Fasc-atiesh

At a cost, it eliminates the need to seek out ramping cost retraining for routine and frequent spec changes between two explicit setups. The former Blizzard assumption was that specs were semi-set in stone strategic choices that were discouraged from swapping repeatedly, so the assumption by Blizzard was that if you wanted to do both PvE and PvP, you had better pick a hybridized set of talents and stick with it. This assumption was proven to be unequivocally poor as players preferred instead of to be ideally specialized for whatever content they did and would either stick to one area of play nearly exclusively (the majority of players) or outright ignore the cost of swapping and just swap very regularly (the minority of players). In neither case do you have people making strategic decisions about the talents themselves, as intended, but rather people were refusing to compromise their best performance.

This is why GC noted in his interview with Neth (who originally posted about talents being strategic decisions) that the old talent system was simply being circumvented, and that no amount of endless testing/tweaking/retuning was going to make it such that people would stop seeking out the inevitable best setups for respective roles or game modes.

It solves the problem of an archaic system that doesn’t actually do its intended job.

And we can look at the several iterations of change that talenting has gone through. In Retail, you can join a dungeon group, and then respec without cost, while in that dungeon.

Dual spec partially solves the problem you’ve described, while solving it more for some playstyles than for others.

Indeed though, the same could be said for many other features that are introduced in later expansions.

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In any case, I’m not sure we’re going to get anywhere with our conversation here. It seems to come down to subjective preference for either staying truer to the original game and design decisions or retrofitting future design decisions onto older content.

[Sykuu-dalaran]

OP, you are a moron.

[Fasc-atiesh]

@Frosto-faerlina

Dual spec partially solves the problem you’ve described, while solving it more for some playstyles than for others.

As I noted before, this is a symptom of hybrids vs pures. There isn’t much reason for the Frost Mage to respec Fire or Arcane when they can do more than serviceable DPS as any of the three (especially Frost in 5mans), whereas the Paladin or Druid can outright change roles.

@Frosto-faerlina

In any case, I’m not sure we’re going to get anywhere with our conversation here. It seems to come down to subjective preference for either staying truer to the original game and design decisions or retrofitting future design decisions onto older content.

That’s why I’m not too huffed one way or another. TBC did fine without dual spec and I have little interest in doing competitive BGs/Arenas beyond the PvE gearing needs it serves, so it really isn’t a huge deal. On the other hand, Dual Spec would seamlessly fit into TBCC as it is little more than a new 1-time option at a trainer and has lower impact on balancing and overall TBC feel than things like Paladin faction seals.

I have a feeling the Blizzard stance will remain as “That’s a WotLK feature” and that will be that.

[Frosto-faerlina]

@Fasc-atiesh

this is a symptom of hybrids vs pures

To an extent sure, but optimization for a particular type of content, even as a pure DPS class for 2s vs 3s and variations on comps, dungeon spamming, farming, raiding, BGs is not going to happen with only dual spec.

More often than not, for me (as I tend to play tank classes), I’ll often respec to run 5-mans with friends who are tanks, or for PVP, or sometimes when not tanking raids. While dual spec would be pretty convenient sometimes, it wouldn’t solve the respec “problem” for me personally, but it would displace it a little.

@Fasc-atiesh

On the other hand, Dual Spec would seamlessly fit into TBCC as it is little more than a new 1-time option at a trainer and has lower impact on balancing and overall TBC feel than things like Paladin faction seals.

Maybe. I mean, I can definitely see how dual spec would fit in. I don’t personally think it solves the problem that you’ve identified as well as either reducing/removing respec fees, or simply allowing free respecs while out of combat. All of that would change the way some people play (which might not be a bad thing - it might even be good).

In any case, as you say, Blizzard is the judge when it comes to what features we do end up getting, and they’ve already introduced changes that (at least in my personal opinion) are much worse than something like dual spec.

[Mikage-pagle]

I would like Goblins and their amazing start zone added NOW!!

/wink

[Serpentine-yojamba]

I too have some terrible ideas for TBC Classic:

-Add pandaren
-Add battlepets
-Add demon hunter class (makes more sense than DK anyway)
-Add 3rd faction, move all UD players to that faction

[Nerrick-ashkandi]

OP doesn’t even make an effort to conceal her trolling anymore.

[Beefranks-azuresong]

Also add monks.