Ability/Loot Lag on Oceanic Servers Despite Normal Latency

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1387
09/27/2018 03:22 AMPosted by Varuz
I'm now at 3k world MS. In a raid. So yeah.


NOT the issue under discussion in this thread.

What is so hard to understand? This thread about lag when in game latency shows normal. If your world/home latency is high and you're experiencing lag, it is not the same issue.
1388
Daily request for an ETA on a fix.
1389
08/17/2018 07:39 AMPosted by Zuvykree
Howdy!

We are currently investigating this issue and need more information to narrow down the problem. When the issue is occurring please run a [url="https://battle.net/support/article/000027780?utm_source=internal-TechForum&utm_medium=posting&utm_campaign=BlizzardCS&utm_content=solution"]WinMTR [/url] to host IP: 103.4.115.248 for 10 minutes. Post the results back here within code blocks </>. Other information we would like to know:

- Does this latency only occur in Battle for Azeroth zones or anywhere in game?
- When the latency is occurring what does your Home/World latency report. You can see this by placing your mouse over the red question mark next to your bags.

This information will help us greatly! Just make sure to collect it when the issue is at it's worst and during the time frame stated.

Thank you!


Just trying to help out some friends not in the NA--this is crazy... Blizz could you at least give them an update? Shocked to have been forwarded this post.
1390
09/13/2018 07:00 PMPosted by Drakuloth
Hey all,

Sorry there haven't been updates. We don't tend to pop in unless there's something to share, and at present I have no further information to give you. We appreciate the details that have been shared lately as we've got a lot of information. Now we're just waiting to see what comes of that data and further testing.

I mostly just wanted to bump the thread and let you know we haven't forgotten about you.


Two weeks since this last entry. Six weeks since launch.

All of the issues that have been stated since page one are still an issue on page seventy three.

Peak time, BFA zones...anywhere between a 3-7 second delay, home/world MS 20-25.

I got on this morning early at 5AM to do a mine/herb run in Tiragard Sound while most people were still in bed and it was generally ok, few little lag spikes here and there.

They have no idea what is going on.
They do have an idea what is going on but no resources to fix.
They just hope we will all disappear.
They think we are making it up.
They do have a fix but no ETA when.

None of those is really acceptable.
1391
I wish I could be this lax with fixing issues at my job.
1393
how about the constant loss of targets while in combat ill be hitting something in a dungeon and my target randomly swaps to something else (no i didn't press tab)
1394
There is garbage latency on Azuremyst right now as well. Was great yesterday but tonight has been unplayable. Thought it might have just been me but it sounds like there are a lot of people with the same problem. On a side note - my Voice Chat keeps connecting and disconnecting so that might be related to the rancid latency issue.
1395
I just wanted to clarify some things for the few who keep bringing up consumer guarantees. So that you don't waste your time on the phone.

Personally I would have liked to have seen this issue resolved before their customers needed to rely on consumer guarantees for a resolution. The thousands of people effected by this issue should be motivation enough for Blizzard to resolve the problem.

The Competition and Consumer Act 2010 (CCA) covers the relationships between suppliers, wholesalers, retailers, and consumers. Its purpose is to promote fair trading and competition, and provide provisions of consumer protections.

Our guarantees include;
World of Warcraft be provided with acceptable care and skill or technical knowledge and taking all necessary steps to avoid loss and damage

World of Warcraft be fit for the purpose or give the results that you and the business had agreed to

World of Warcraft be delivered within a reasonable time when there is no agreed end date.


If these protections aren't met, you can ask for a remedy. Here are the remedies that apply to us;

You can claim a remedy from the supplier if the services do not meet any of the consumer guarantees in relation to services. Remedies include cancelling a service and in some cases compensation for damages and loss.


If you have a problem with a service, take the following steps:

Contact the service provider verbally or in writing to explain the problem. If the provider cannot fix the service in a reasonable time, state that you want to cancel the service contract.

If relevant, also ask the service provider to compensate you for any damages or losses caused by the problem.

If you’ve paid for the service and it has already started or been delivered, negotiate a refund to cover the services that failed and any advance payments.

Show proof of purchase with a receipt or bank statement.


So before we start carrying the iron torch of consumer guarantees, it doesn't require Blizzard to fix their game. Just that if they can't or won't fix it, we are entitled to a refund.

And for those of you that brought up Valve. Valve argued that they were not required to comply with Australian Consumer Law requirements, and could refuse refund requests from any customers. This was the breach they were fined for, it wasn't the poor quality of the games provided. It was that they wouldn't provide a refund when asked for a remedy by consumers.

Hopefully they get off their butts and fix the issue. I just wanted to post as there seemed to be a lot of miscommunication about the CCA and wanted to save people some time.

Fingers crossed a resolution is around the corner xo
1396
09/27/2018 04:24 PMPosted by Mcbeardy
how about the constant loss of targets while in combat ill be hitting something in a dungeon and my target randomly swaps to something else (no i didn't press tab)


Not related to this issue
1397
09/27/2018 04:42 PMPosted by Moonshakes
So before we start carrying the iron torch of consumer guarantees, it doesn't require Blizzard to fix their game. Just that if they can't or won't fix it, we are entitled to a refund.


I would argue that the remedy is to cancel without penalty.

A refund would be likely if the purchase of BfA did not deliver the content as advertised.

As the content is available, and the game is playable (despite the latency issue), cancellation without penalty is likely to be what you'd be entitled to.

And under the contract between player and Blizzard, you are entitled to that. You might be able to argue for a refund of unused subscription, but I think that would be unlikely.
1398
*sigh*

At this point, that's all I have.
1399
Hey again everybody,

The lack of an ETA is nothing more than us not having an ETA for a fix. We're pretty sure we know the cause of the issue, but it's not something a quick couple lines of code in a hotfix is going to resolve or that would already have been done. I don't have the full details of the issue and can only share so much, but it has to do with the way sharding/instancing is happening on your realms currently. This is why it's only affecting some players some times on certain shards. Sharding is an intricate system. It's a big bear you do not poke lightly.

There are a few different server stability problems we're working on at the moment, and it's quite likely that the fixes for each are at least partially related. This one is included in that number.

I 100% understand that you want this fixed sooner, and can empathize with the fact that this is degrading your ability to go out and enjoy open world content. In general I tend to only post updates on a thread like this when I have actual meaningful information to share. Just because I'm not replying to you doesn't mean we're trying to blow you off.

We know this is a problem. We're using our internal channels to keep the developers mindful of the scope of the impact of this issue. They're on the case.

Many of you in this thread are upset, or angry, and I absolutely understand that. As long as you're keeping it constructive and keeping us in the loop, and as long as you're not violating the forum ToU, I do not mind that you're choosing to express that emotion here. Keep in mind that comments like "Daily request for an ETA" though snarky are something we're keeping tabs on. I will say - it can't magically cause me to have an ETA to share if we don't have one, but it delivers the sentiment. As a fellow player, I intimately understand the frustration. As support we're doing everything we can here, and as players you've done everything you can for the time being. Our devs, too, are actively looking into the issue for a resolution.

So, as long as you folks aren't fighting eachother, and as long as you're providing feedback in the spirit of improving the game world, keep letting us know that it is happening periodically just so we know it hasn't been resolved with a patch unexpectedtly. We already have all the reports we need for this issue, as we're pretty confident that we diagnosed the problem. All there is now is to design a fix, code it, and push it ASAP.

If you wish to keep us informed of the scope of the issue, you can continue to let us know when and on what server it's happening. You are not by any means obligated to do this, but this is currently one of the most constructive things you can do in our eyes.

TL;DR Y'all be good to eachother. We're keeping an eye on it. We're working on it. Thank you for your immense patience so far.
1400
Good to hear the top women and men at Blizzard are still working hard to get BfA out of beta.

Thanks for the update.
1401
09/27/2018 08:08 PMPosted by Drakuloth
Hey again everybody,

The lack of an ETA is nothing more than us not having an ETA for a fix. We're pretty sure we know the cause of the issue, but it's not something a quick couple lines of code in a hotfix is going to resolve or that would already have been done. I don't have the full details of the issue and can only share so much, but it has to do with the way sharding/instancing is happening on your realms currently. This is why it's only affecting some players some times on certain shards. Sharding is an intricate system. It's a big bear you do not poke lightly.

There are a few different server stability problems we're working on at the moment, and it's quite likely that the fixes for each are at least partially related. This one is included in that number.

I 100% understand that you want this fixed sooner, and can empathize with the fact that this is degrading your ability to go out and enjoy open world content. In general I tend to only post updates on a thread like this when I have actual meaningful information to share. Just because I'm not replying to you doesn't mean we're trying to blow you off.

We know this is a problem. We're using our internal channels to keep the developers mindful of the scope of the impact of this issue. They're on the case.

Many of you in this thread are upset, or angry, and I absolutely understand that. As long as you're keeping it constructive and keeping us in the loop, and as long as you're not violating the forum ToU, I do not mind that you're choosing to express that emotion here. Keep in mind that comments like "Daily request for an ETA" though snarky are something we're keeping tabs on. I will say - it can't magically cause me to have an ETA to share if we don't have one, but it delivers the sentiment. As a fellow player, I intimately understand the frustration. As support we're doing everything we can here, and as players you've done everything you can for the time being. Our devs, too, are actively looking into the issue for a resolution.

So, as long as you folks aren't fighting eachother, and as long as you're providing feedback in the spirit of improving the game world, keep letting us know that it is happening periodically just so we know it hasn't been resolved with a patch unexpectedtly. We already have all the reports we need for this issue, as we're pretty confident that we diagnosed the problem. All there is now is to design a fix, code it, and push it ASAP.

If you wish to keep us informed of the scope of the issue, you can continue to let us know when and on what server it's happening. You are not by any means obligated to do this, but this is currently one of the most constructive things you can do in our eyes.

TL;DR Y'all be good to eachother. We're keeping an eye on it. We're working on it. Thank you for your immense patience so far.


Thank you.

Some people say no news is good news but here is news that while it isn't the best we can hope for is at least telling us that the devs have seen the problem and have narrowed it down to a smaller area of possible causes.

Now a fix would be good but as you said, rushing something like that in an area of the code for the game that is delicate and susceptible to unforeseen problems, would be wore than doing nothing.

So thanks for the heads up and here is hoping that they get a hold of the problem and see a way to fix it soon.
1402
09/27/2018 08:08 PMPosted by Drakuloth
This is why it's only affecting some players some times on certain shards.

This is the bit that worries me, though. Is it not just a bit more widespread than some people on some shards at some times? Sure, it seems contained to Oceanic realms which likely has something to do with the fact our servers are literally different to US realms but it's a pretty consistent, broad issue by (almost all) Oceanic players.
1403
09/27/2018 08:08 PMPosted by Drakuloth
but it has to do with the way sharding/instancing is happening on your realms currently.


Thought so, might be a early Christmas present in 2019 fellows, save them pennies for now cause this fix ain't coming anytime soon :)
1404
09/27/2018 09:04 PMPosted by Llammy
09/27/2018 08:08 PMPosted by Drakuloth
This is why it's only affecting some players some times on certain shards.

This is the bit that worries me, though. Is it not just a bit more widespread than some people on some shards at some times? Sure, it seems contained to Oceanic realms which likely has something to do with the fact our servers are literally different to US realms but it's a pretty consistent, broad issue by (almost all) Oceanic players.


Llammy,

To clarify, I don't mean it's not happening to a large number of players and I'm not trying to downplay the impact. I just mean that at any given time, it'll only affect a couple shards at once while others work all right. It may seem like it's "Affecting everybody" when it's happening, but this is a result of it being pretty rare for people to report when things are going well. (Also, a shard can have hundreds of players on it at any given time, so it does affect a fair number of players when it happens.) If someone asks "Hey is anybody else lagging right now" you're going to get the people who are having problems saying yes more often than the people who are over on the shard functioning fine fishing or whatever saying "nah I'm good."

Over an extended period of time, those players who are good at one time may transfer onto a shard with an issue so more people will end up having problems, while others phase onto a different one which is not having problems. That's what leads us to believe we're looking at instancing/sharding. Hope that clears things up.
1405
09/27/2018 09:11 PMPosted by Drakuloth
09/27/2018 09:04 PMPosted by Llammy
...
This is the bit that worries me, though. Is it not just a bit more widespread than some people on some shards at some times? Sure, it seems contained to Oceanic realms which likely has something to do with the fact our servers are literally different to US realms but it's a pretty consistent, broad issue by (almost all) Oceanic players.


Llammy,

To clarify, I don't mean it's not happening to a large number of players and I'm not trying to downplay the impact. I just mean that at any given time, it'll only affect a couple shards at once while others work all right. It may seem like it's "Affecting everybody" when it's happening, but this is a result of it being pretty rare for people to report when things are going well. (Also, a shard can have hundreds of players on it at any given time, so it does affect a fair number of players when it happens.) If someone asks "Hey is anybody else lagging right now" you're going to get the people who are having problems saying yes more often than the people who are over on the shard functioning fine fishing or whatever saying "nah I'm good."

Over an extended period of time, those players who are good at one time may transfer onto a shard with an issue so more people will end up having problems, while others phase onto a different one which is not having problems. That's what leads us to believe we're looking at instancing/sharding. Hope that clears things up.


While I totally agree with the notion that people will be more vocal about something which negatively effects them verses something neutral (in some cases), I can only recall my own experience on the matter in questioning how reliable it may be in this situation; with said lag issues severely degrading my play experience each evening, I simply chose not to play in these periods rather than spamming the forums or moaning to my guild (Hi Llammy!).

Combined with - for example - the unschedule maintenance, hitting us right in our peak (raiding) time, I honestly feel like the severity his issue has been exasperated by such poor communication, and that has ultimately led to the feeling that Oceanic players don't matter.

I think everyone (out side of trolling) truly does understand that it takes time to solve stuff like this, and the majority of us who aren't tech boffins are always happy to defer to those who seem to be in the know, however when something as simple as a "Hey, so sorry, we're still investigating the underlying issue here" seems few and far between, can you really blame us for feeling this way?
1406
09/27/2018 08:08 PMPosted by Drakuloth
Hey again everybody,

The lack of an ETA is nothing more than us not having an ETA for a fix. We're pretty sure we know the cause of the issue, but it's not something a quick couple lines of code in a hotfix is going to resolve or that would already have been done. I don't have the full details of the issue and can only share so much, but it has to do with the way sharding/instancing is happening on your realms currently. This is why it's only affecting some players some times on certain shards. Sharding is an intricate system. It's a big bear you do not poke lightly.

[/quote]

Sorry but what you are saying is that Blizzard know whats the issue is but it takes a long time to fix it because it's not few lines of code and sharding is the big bear you do not poke.

So basically, you are saying that multi billion dollar company can't afford to pay developers to work overtime?

I wish that in my business I can say to clients "Sorry we know what the issue is but we don't have any ETA for fixing it"

With all due respect Drakuloth but that is simply a load of horse!@#$.
1407
This is why it's only affecting some players some times on certain shards. Sharding is an intricate system. It's a big bear you do not poke lightly.


First of all THANK YOU. This is what I suspected.

Now: Ive been making some notes.

First, during peak times we have what you could call "choke points". Using a Venn diagram, draw two circles around Boralus and Zuldezar, have them intersect and you will see the issue as far as the capitals are concerned.

I have literally seen the lag drop off as soon as I move out of those areas, and this MAY be due to war mode vs non in a congested area. Peak times are about 5pm through to about 9pm approx.

Second, have the techs look at places like Tol Dagor and the zone around Corlain, as I have noted what id call "spikes" of server lag in those areas, BUT as soon as you move away the effect lessens..which looks to me as if Im moving from one shard to another.

These are farm areas, and the player capacity rises and falls as people move off..draw a circle between I think Falhaven and Corlain, as the lag issues appear intermittently.

I have noted a degree of "fall off" as I shifted location, the lag lessened and then rose again almost as if on a gradient curve. The greater the area population, the greater the lag..so I would venture a guess it may be shards AND congestion both.

Thirdly, looking at mail and GBank lag, they are concentrated in capital areas BUT when using mobile banking, I experimented with putting down banks in different areas...the results were again almost in a slow upward curve.

Question: by shards do you mean normal sharding or do you mean war mode vs not?

Next: I dont know if this is relevant, but Id like your feedback on this.

Lets say that I go into a group to kill a boss. I am sharded into that group and my latency spikes (as it would) as the shard is with US servers.

BUT.

What I have then noticed is that when I hearth back to Zul or to Boralus, my latency does not drop off..I have to hearth to Dal to get it to reset. Whether this is an issue peculiar to me or if its more widespread I dont know..but Ive tested and again the results are the same every time.

I dont know why and I imagine your techs may be able to answer this, but leaving a group should initiate a change back to OCE servers..this isnt happening in those capitals.

That could be something to look at as maybe a symptom of the problem, or it may be linked to the sharding for those areas. I have noted my latency stays at 11/150 if I stay in Boralus, when I move to Dal that drops within a few minutes.

Could part of this be due to an incorrect or slow "soft reset" on the actual server connections?

One last point thats happened only in the last few days.

From time to time we get letters from NPC's..flavour stuff. I try and save those and I cant, I try to delete it and I cant. On each and every occasion it has taken a shift to Dal and then back to Zul or Boralus and it can then be deleted.

I cant say if this is part of the issue at hand, but its a new factor I have seen in the last few days, so Im reporting it anyway. If it fits, great, if not, well youve been advised :-D

Not a tech so dont know if this is useful or not, but there it is.

You are not by any means obligated to do this, but this is currently one of the most constructive things you can do in our eyes.


If you need any testing done, if you need reports, if you need data, all you EVER need do is ask. I will be delighted to help wherever I can.

- Aehl.

P.S Thank you again, Drakuloth, cant tell you how much its appreciated.