I just watched skillcapped most recent video. Very good and I would recommend.
He brought up the point that wow is far too complicated for a new player to play- also he compared wow pvp with mythic +.
It got me thinking about mythic + popularity. Essentially the players learn a rotation, gain power, and react to the environment. Of course the environment is very scripted, making gameplay much easier.
With PvP - perhaps wow could try to create a similar model, making PvP much more simple, without taking away the ability to express skill.
You would do this by limiting the amount of “important” buttons during stressful situations. In mythic you know when to prep your damage- then memorize the 3-4 button damage rotation (based on class). After this you have buttons that are needed randomly (cc, defense, aid, buffs). This creates skill expression while keeping then game fun.
So streamline the damage rotations in PvP. That is why DH /BM is so popular. iMo getting out damage at the right time is not as fun as creating the opportunity to do so.
So cut down the bloat by simplifying these crazy damage rotations- 3-4 buttons max.
Thoughts?
Edit: just to help me prove my point, can you post your damage rotations during a burst window?
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I feel like I’m having a stroke here when comparing it to the M+ bit but maybe im just overthinking
How about we just prune warlocks, mages, and demon hunters.
BOOM
Easily fixed arena and saved wow
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That isn’t why they are popular. Damage is the easiest thing todo in PvP.
DH is popular because:
- It does a ton of damage
- Doesn’t die
- Can use cool names like Illidank
BM is popular because:
- It does very good damage while being 100% mobile
- Can name your pets after your best friends
If doing your rotation is difficult in PvP, probably good to practice more in PvE and get better. I usually level new toons to do this. Start with your basic rotation and then add to it. It’s what helped me learn the Lavalash build as enhance.
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i don’t know if it’s intentional but there’s a disconnect in this post
this is handwaved into
when they’re not really the same thing
the specs on which it’s hard to keep up competitive damage in an arena match don’t have that problem because their rotations are complicated. they have that problem because some/many matchups can deny or interrupt the foundations of their rotational setup most of the time, so they have to achieve some kind of outplay just to get any damage at all.
simplifying damage rotations would not make every caster so tanky that they can just park in mid ignoring the lethal dam pouring out of a dh player’s pimples, and that threat is what makes getting damage out difficult for unskilled players.
the solution to this problem would be to remove the easy, uncounterable, “you will press 2 in a row of either walls or undispellable peels, or i will kill you here without ccing your healer” damage from the ~90% of meta specs that have access to it. they will almost certainly never make that change, but it’s the real problem you’re describing
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World of warcraft is a game with 70 levels. Lower level pvp needs to be fixed to accommodate newer players until that becomes too easy/stale for them then they can move to a higher level. Also need to get rid of level boost. This game wouldn’t seem so complex if leveling was a core part of gameplay and learning your class.
Throwing a brand new player into level 70 pvp immediately is like throwing an out of shape person who is trying to start exercising into running an ultra marathon.
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Bruh, how you gonna let these fly-around-while-casting-spitting-big-dam-annoying-af dragons be around still?
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ret with a castbar you can kick sometimes? they’re fine
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I guess you missed my point. I am not talking about skill through mastering a ton of abilities. I am trying to get new players into the game by decreasing bloat. Players can still expression skill through many other ways.
We finally beat a pres evoker in 2s tonight.
Waited out shroud, saved hoj for after communion.
Helped he had a useless bm hunter for a partner.
The wod pruning is probably among the worst things ever done to this game.
They’ve spent expansion after expansion adding stuff back in because of it, and players clamor for classic versions to play filled out versions of the classes they love.
There’s a reason people hold mop up as the pinnacle of PvP.
I’ve been around too long - and been bad too long - but have played arena in every expansion wrath and on at some level.
Playing with great frost mages in mop made me want to play a mage. Was amazing the control and ability to win 1v2.
There was such a notable difference in skill between bad > mediocre > good back then.
Now you can be bad, but you picked edgelord dh and just do stupid easy damage with little to no skill, just blurring and darkness and bam, 2k+
I say this as a once terrible now mediocre player - being bad is fine, but you should get crushed by someone good. Skill expression has value and is important. That’s what made me want to become good. Seeing good players make good plays.
Now so much is just mongo mongo mash win because of massive overtuning (I missed retpocalypse so don’t assume I got any benefit lol).
TLDR pruning ruined too much, don’t prune again.
in a macro sense it’s been ongoing since sl season 1 with pretty few interruptions. we even had a mini one for a few weeks at the start of crimson before the category five event
Ah. I was referring to the crimson cat5 one. Stopped playing 2/28 and sat for a while before coming back.
go make some toast and reread it, makes the stroke feelings vr
so no new players then. right?
I don’t think abilities are what really makes WoW complex, but macros and addons.
Most games have an aiming mechanic, where you either manually aim attacks or click a spot to activate an ability. But WoW’s targeting system can be used to self-cast, cast at target, cast at focus, cast at arena 1-3, and cast at party 1-3. Then you have all types of conditional macros, like macros that only use an ability when a certain buff is active. Or target-clearing macros for CC. Or pet management macros. Or macros that cast at your cursor. Or macros that auto-cast underneath your character. Or stop-cast macros.
Then you add in all the extra UI elements from addons, such as DR tracking, buff tracking, debuff tracking, CD tracking, improved nameplates for important summons/totems, weak aura prompts for important spell casts, etc.
It’s just a lot for a new player to set up.
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i think everything just needs more modifies.
I’ve been saying for years that WoW has too much button bloat. I look at other MMOs like ESO, GW2, and they don’t require 4 rows of icons to play their games.
Having 4 rows of icons doesn’t necessarily mean you use 4 rows of icons. Some things are flavour.
On top of that, there really isn’t much bloat unless you play brewmaster atm.
WoW is nearly 20 years old at this point. It is not going to bring in a lot of new players no matter what they do. See the previous times Blizzard have pruned and simplified classes in the past. It didn’t result in an influx of new players. Just an exodus of old players.
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