None of this is relevant to M+.
So someone who wipes the group 100 times in a row on the last boss can’t be removed? You either have to do pull 101 or take a 30 minute penalty? Do you people never stop for even a moment to consider the potential consequences of your terrible ideas?
So today my 630 dps went into timewalking to finish up the weekly quest, and decided since I was a hunter I could grab the Elder quest while in Stratholme and not worry about pulling adds to the rest of the group. It took me about 20 seconds to run to the Elder, grab the quest and run far enough away to feign death so they don’t pull to the party. Instead of saying anything, I get kicked. Now I have a 30 minute debuff before I can queue again. I didn’t do anything wrong, I took 20 seconds out of the run to finish the quest for the trading post.
The system is flawed. You can initiate a kick for any reason, even if it’s just to grief or be inconvenienced for less than half a minute. Now that half a minute cost me another 30 minutes of having to wait on my debuff to expire
You don’t feel like you did anything wrong, and while I agree with that assessment and wouldn’t have kicked you myself, the group you were in felt differently.
Why do you think your feeling about it should be more important than the majority of the group you were with?
Because the kick was reactionary and instead of thinking about it, people just select yes because it’s available and they don’t want to have to think about it. When someone initiates a kick, people can’t be bothered to be moral when it doesn’t negatively affect them. They’ll get a new member right away and continue on like it’s nothing while the person that got kicked gets a 30 minute debuff.
If everyone had to explain why a kick should happen and the reason was given to the person who got kicked, that would make people actually think about why something is happening. Instead, they just say yes because they can and it’s easy.
Like I said, flawed system. Kicks can be a good thing, and I don’t feel like removing that is necessary. But, the system can definitely be fixed to discourage griefing people or just using it without a care.
Possible fixes to discourage toxicity -
This system if flawed the way it punishes those that might not have done anything wrong, because a few people are on a power trip. Discourage this behavior.
I care less about getting kicked and more about having to wait 30 minutes bc my group is going the wrong way…i say hey wrong way…they keep going and i say ffs…then get kicked. i dont wat to be in a group with those people wasting other time anyway…but i shouldnt be penalized for not going the wrong way too.
So let me get this straight, you are more ticked off at the debuff you get when kiced because you get kicked for wanting to go a different way then what the group was doing?
Looks like we have a real bonehead here, get this: the is no WRONG way according to Blizzard, the “right way” is 1 of the following:
You are not the most important member of the group, you are not the one that gets to decide what is right or wrong, or anything of the sort. In your case, the debuff is nto punishment for not going the "wrong way: it is penalizing you for not being a team player and possibly wasting the time of the other 4 players by not adding your damage/healing/tanking to the group and speeding the run up.
No, in the example I gave it was multiple hours. I got the exact same griefing group multiple times in a row on top of extremely long queue times. People that repeatedly grief like that should be looked into.
My group just kciked tank cuz he refused to help last boss… so mid pull kicked him. Tank kept making rude comments to people acting mean. Justice prevailed.
agree too much with this, most kicks occurs at the end of a dungeon to make the person kicked, suffer emotionally, after they contributed to the team, and reap no reward at all at last boss. Kick should never be initiated at the end boss or end stage. That’s just toxic and doing it on purpose. The tank pulled on 4 group of mobs near the end boss, which usually we do one by one to be safe, I can’t heal all of them and the grp wiped. And I was kicked right before the last boss. The tank was pulling the same bs throughout the dungeon the grp wipe several times because of them, and the innocent healer got punished right before the end boss. Funny thing no ones said anything about the tank that nearly pulled all the dungeons in tww at lvl 72, I was 75 healer. The system seriously needs fixing.
Dungeons are a joke unless you are doing mythic plus. TW for example you get tanks that are not geared that want to pull everything and then die. Fury warriors lvl 11 smoking the whole dungeon so fast no one can keep up, Mistweaver monks queing as tank, and heals dpsing and not healing! Currently the whole system of Dungeon groups is a joke. Unless you are strictly doing end-game content like mythic plus or raid roles don’t mean anything anymore. WoW went from a Massive Multiplayer online role playing game to just a massive online game. If i were a new player trying to learn my role and do dungeons with these groups i would quit, unsub, and uninstall and never return to wow ever again.
WoW is insanely toxic for many reasons that have nothing to do with people being verbally abusive, even though we get our share of that too.
People will abuse any and everything they can, and there’s rarely consequences for crossing the line over into exploit territory.
Why do we need a deserter debuff for getting kicked?
Because when we didn’t have it, jackasses would just hold a group hostage and force their group to kick them out instead of taking deserter themselves.
Why do we need deserter at all? Because you’ll get a jackass tank who queues “random” until they get the dungeon they want, while leaving the rest of their group stuck in a dungeon with no tank until the next one queues… who may or may not decide to finish it.
There’s only one way to deal with that kind of stuff. Hire more customer service/GMs, and look at people being reported case by case and hitting the actual abusers. But that kind of stuff is a cost center, not a profit center, and Blizz has more than proven they won’t invest in that kind of stuff for player retainment.
I keep seeing this argument, repeatedly. How often are people in heroic dungeons “stuck waiting” for a healer or a tank? You get another one in 20-30 seconds, tops, at low population hours. These dungeons are so easy I can practically solo them as feral, so having 2 dps and a healer, or a tank and 2 other dps makes the dungeons very easy.
i also kinda wish more poeple would just tank or heal themselves so they can quit whining about this.
The whole reason i switched to tank eons ago was b/c this problem was soooo irritating
If there was no deserter debuff, the next one you got would leave too. Then the next, then the next, then the next. Ad infinitum for hours.
This is exactly what happened when dungeon finder was first released. You got randomed into Oculus, it could take 20-30 minutes to find a tank who would stay.
And the same would happen in whatever the longest/most annoying dungeon in the pool was for the current season.
Oh no, I have to re-queue with no consequences into trivial content, where 3 dps can solo the dungeon if need be.
When dungeon finder was first released there wasn’t a viable option to find other ways to get gear. Now there is. The argument of hostage tanks/healers or tanks insta leaving isn’t valid anymore and I’m tired of people acting like it is. Especially when it’s nearly guaranteed that one or two of the dps likely has a tank or healer spec that they can instantly swap to if they don’t get another tank/healer within 30 seconds.
So your argument is that they should just get rid of deserter debuff because it doesn’t matter any more if people can complete dungeons or not?
Deserter debuffs exist for a reason. If you’re getting enough of them that you have to post about it, you’re the problem.
I am not the one being kicked, i find it unfair that new players are being kicked from dungeons for being new.
Deserter debuff should be a stacking cumulative that resets after an hour. After 1st kick it’s 5 min, 2nd it’s 10 min, 3rd it’s 15, 4th it’s 30. And like I said, this is TRIVIAL CONTENT. If you desperately NEED to complete a specific dungeon for a quest, you can just q for a follower dungeon.
I also think it’s unfortunate that new players get kicked from dungeons.
The problem is that removing kicks and deserter is not a solution. We already tried that 16 years ago and there’s a reason that kicks and deserter exist.
I feel like I’m talking to a merry go round that puts words in my mouth. Debuff should be cumulative. Dungeons are trivial content with ability to flex specs inside the dungeon.