A recent lawsuit accuses the WoW team of being part of a "frat boy culture" - does that impact the story?

While you’re right about that part, you left out a lot of what that the Presbyterian Church says (I never rejected the Presbyterian Church, I do not consider the Presbyterian denomination the only true form of Christianity).

This has helped me re-evaluate some of my views on abortion and gain a deeper understanding. While I thank you for sharing this, I do not approve of your ideological and defamatory personal attacks on myself and others.

Short version; abortion should be a last resort if considered at all, is not the only option, that the woman and the child should be respected before and after birth, we Christians are called upon to non-violently decrease the number of abortions and abortion is never acceptable as a form of birth control, for convenience, easing embarrassment, gender selection or acquiring fetal parts for transplants.

Long version - here’s the text from that website which you left out. Aside from one sentence you omitted from the first paragraph (bold added by me here for emphasis);

In regard to problems that arise in late pregnancies, the 217th General Assembly (2006) adopted the following position:

We affirm that the lives of viable unborn babies — those well-developed enough to survive outside the womb if delivered — ought to be preserved and cared for and not aborted. In cases where problems of life or health of the mother arise in a pregnancy, the church supports efforts to protect the life and health of both the mother and the baby. When late-term pregnancies must be terminated, we urge decisions intended to deliver the baby alive. We look to our churches to provide pastoral and tangible support to women in problem pregnancies and to surround these families with a community of care. We affirm adoption as a provision for women who deliver children they are not able to care for, and ask our churches to assist in seeking loving, Christian, adoptive families.

This General Assembly holds this statement as its position on a Christian response to problems that arise late in pregnancies. We find it to be consistent with current General Assembly policy on Problem Pregnancies and Abortion (1992), and supersedes General Assembly statements of 2002 and 2003 on late-term pregnancies and abortion.

The 204th General Assembly (1992) adopted the most comprehensive policy statement on pregnancy and abortion. The “Report of the Special Committee on Problem Pregnancy” addressed a myriad of issues in order to help guide individuals and families who face problem pregnancies and abortion. The following are excerpts from the 1992 policy:

There is [both] agreement and disagreement on the basic issue of abortion. The committee [on problem pregnancies and abortion] agreed that there are no biblical texts that speak expressly to the topic of abortion, but that taken in their totality the Holy Scriptures are filled with messages that advocate respect for the woman and child before and after birth. Therefore the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) encourages an atmosphere of open debate and mutual respect for a variety of opinions concerning the issues related to problem pregnancies and abortion.

Areas of Substantial Agreement on the Issue of Abortion
The church ought to be able to maintain within its fellowship those who, on the basis of a study of Scripture and prayerful decision, come to diverse conclusions and actions.

Problem pregnancies are the result of, and influenced by, so many complicated and insolvable circumstances that we have neither the wisdom nor the authority to address or decide each situation.

We affirm the ability and responsibility of women, guided by the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit, in the context of their communities of faith, to make good moral choices in regard to problem pregnancies.

We call upon Presbyterians to work for a decrease in the number of problem pregnancies, thereby decreasing the number of abortions.

The considered decision of a woman to terminate a pregnancy can be a morally acceptable, though certainly not the only or required, decision. Possible justifying circumstances would include medical indications of severe physical or mental deformity, conception as a result of rape or incest, or conditions under which the physical or mental health of either woman or child would be gravely threatened.

We are disturbed by abortions that seem to be elected only as a convenience or ease embarrassment. We affirm that abortion should not be used as a method of birth control.

Abortion is not morally acceptable for gender selection only or solely to obtain fetal parts for transplantation.

We reject the use of violence and/or abusive language either in protest of or in support of abortion.

The strong Christian presumption is that since all life is precious to God, we are to preserve and protect it. Abortion ought to be an option of last resort.

The Christian community must be concerned about and address the circumstances that bring a woman to consider abortion as the best available option. Poverty, unjust societal realities, sexism, racism, and inadequate supportive relationships may render a woman virtually powerless to choose freely.

The previous excerpts and the areas of substantial agreement on the issue of abortion have been the cornerstone for “the atmosphere of open debate and mutual respect for a variety of opinions” during the past 30 years.

Nothing. Aside most can not afford it.
That’s not what we are talking about. You want to force your ideas upon others.

I attack your wrong statments. Not Christians. If you don’t want to be attacked don’t act like a tyrant. You aren’t a victim.

Christians aren’t the same as the Bible.

Your extremist quote is nonsense and disgusting.

As I said. You don’t care about the living. You don’t want child and family support. You want control.

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Your reading comprehension is poor.

The church is not talking about embryos they are talking about premie babies that can survive outside of the womb, should not be aborted unless medically nesscessary and the pro-choice side agrees which is why abortion can only take place up to the 12th week. (The amount of abortions after 12 weeks for convenience is ZERO and we all agree that shouldn’t happen and it doesn’t. “Late stage abortion” doesn’t exist, because it’s not ethical, no one is advocating for it… no one)

Babies who are older than 24 weeks in the womb can be incubated as premies ie: they can potentially survive outside the womb. But they are still at high risk of dying of complications because thier lungs are not fully developed. No matter what there’s still going to be dead babies until we can create synthetic wombs how do we stop this from happening?

Your complete lack of knowledge of pregnancy and birth make you sound ignorant.

The church says that they support the quality of life debate and are focused on helping the mother and child with support to ensure good quality of life, which is what anyone would expect from the church because they also run community programs and charities.

The main two reasons for abortion is domestic abuse and poverty. If you want to stop abortions focus your energy on stopping those two things first, we must fix quality if life issues first and more women will carry babies to term if they feel supported.

Nothing you shared about the church supports your exteemist, anti-woman bigotry. If the church isn’t anti-women how can you claim it supports your opinions?

If you do follow a church that is anti-woman, maybe ask yourself why? Maybe you have fallen too far away from the values of the church and have been led astray

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I do remember there being controversy some years back about Virginia allowing late stage abortions.

It was just a proposed bill. That bill was rejected as infanticide. Because it is.

Democracy did it’s job.

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Alaska, Colorado, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, Vermont, and the District of Columbia allow abortion at any time.

Yikes… America. Wtf. (F stands for fudge mods)

Honestly, I don’t think the abortion debate should not be lumped together with infanticide.

I support abortion. I don’t support infanticide. I don’t see any problem with abortions up to 11 weeks.

USA has to work out it’s own issues.

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Not yikes.
As you said it normally never ever happens, because no women lives through all those months and then for late.
It has to be an option for medical reasons though.

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Yes, medical and surgical abortions only take place after 24 weeks if the pregnancy is non-viable aka the baby has abnormalities where it cannot live outside the womb (most common is when the babies brain develops outside the skull, or if the baby has severe cleft palate that will slowly suffocate the baby post birth) or if the baby is life threatening to the mother. This makes up less than 1% of abortions, and are usually to spare the baby a traumatic death post birth, because again… they cannot survive outside of the womb.

Late stage abortions are not being used to abort heathly babies. That’s an odd misconception about abortion.

People don’t get late stage abortions “for conveniece.” That’s infanticide.

At least this is the law in Canada, where I’m from.

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Well, that is because you are disingenuous. You don’t seek to have a conversation as much as you seek gaslight.

Case in point is that I have taken up other people in that offer, just not you.

I cited my sources, idk what to tell ya.

it was the truth for me, but not for you. It is telling that you only ever show up when you feel you got a gotcha moment. Always going after my moral character rather than anything of substance. What you do is an open attempt at slander and manipulation, which is why, far to late in the discussion, I stopped considering you as someone worthy of engaging.

If that is how you want to interpret it, by all means. You wont get that analysis from anyone who actually knows me. But you are not trying to know me, are you?

I do. The problem is that I run into people like you.

Where did you get your college degrees where they take pop culture references as valid references?

I’m curious.

Understanding of proper citation is required.

Tammy seems to understand this and thier comments are always backed up with real facts where applicable.

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I mean, I went to a PAC-10 school, so they wouldn’t accept pop culture references unless the subject was about pop culture, perhaps.

And yet I’m having a hard time believing you are in fact a business or real estate accountant with the salary to afford a lambo on these supposed degrees.

Something here stinks.

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Then don’t believe it, lol.

If anything, you’ve pined more for my approval than I have for yours.

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No one here is pining for your approval honey.

More like some dumb twenty year old kid thinks she’s the smartest and coolest person in the room because she’s put all her self esteem in pretending to be cool.

It’s more eye rolling than anything.

Don’t worry Regina George I’m not trying to steal your spotlight.

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Idk, it seems like there are a noticeable number of people who choose to engage me in every thread I post in. A lot of the time, when I post in a thread, I am not responding to anyone. Rather, I make a general, blanket statement about the subject being discussed, and the same people engage with me.

I don’t come after yall, yall come to me.

I had self esteem issues back in the day. My online persona was one of many outlets I had for that. But I have grown a lot since then, with help from a lot of people who deeply care for me. And I care for them in turn.

If you said this a few years ago, you’d have hit the nail on the head. Not so much the case anymore.

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Some peeps have trouble moving on or like to look for trouble. It just seem silly to me

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Whatever you said. I like this.

It was an antagonistic comment about Akiyass. Tbh, I was pretty toxic towards her.

She brings it out of people.

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