Yeah. And possibly with a more complex trash % bar so it’s not just invisible pots all the way down
There could be mini-boss packs that you need to kill, kinda similar to the pre-stitchflesh packs in NW. They could be in corners of the room impossible to invis to.
Like, you must kill at least 5 slime tentacles in plaguefall to count as complete.
In fact, yes they are. It means you have to clear mobs quickly, but also efficiently. Successfully beating a timer means you have to play holistically, not just thinking about the current pull. The timer is what makes m+ difficult, anyone can beat the AI if they have all the time in the world and unlimited attempts. Without a timer there is no risk.
That would be infinitely more fun than M+.
Are we just gonna nuh-uh each other? Ok, then.
No, timers aren’t difficulty.
The timer merely existing creates pressure and an atmosphere of toxicity though.
It’s also, again, the dumbest thing ever because people have lives and may need to leave. Also, sometimes people dc. It’s the internet.
Yes they are. Without a timer it would be virtually impossible to fail. Trash would be completely meaningless because you could just throw yourself against packs and devote entire wipes to killing a single mob. You could wait to have big 3 minute cooldowns up for every pull. That takes away strategizing. In a timed M+ you might have 10 uses of your big cooldown. If you don’t use it often you miss out on uses. If you use it for one pull you won’t have it for another. Without the timer you don’t have to decide because you know that it’s always going to be up.
Bosses also become idiotic. Everything would have to be like Hakkar where you eventually get overwhelmed. Otherwise you would just run double healer everywhere and never die.
This is absolutely, 100% false, sorry my friend.
Go do this M+15 in 30 minutes.
Go do this M+15 before the universe dies.
Which one is harder?
one tank, 3 healers (inc disc priest and holy pally), and a fire mage!
Dang, that actually sounds like a fun change of pace and not being thrown against a boring timer!
It’s almost like some players dont enjoy timers and they dont add enjoyment to certain players gameplay!
What’s harder, running 200 metres or running 200 metres in 30 seconds?
Great, you don’t have lie about timers adding difficulty though.
Did you miss the part where I said “endurance mode”
I am not comparing an unlimited timed 200m.
I am comparing 200m sprint to the iron man challenge, or a marathon, or mega-marathons or triathlons.
It’s almost like endurance is a legitimate measure of difficulty.
Exactly.
Original post was about timer not adding difficulty. Now it’s about timer being a refreshing change of pace. Well, which one is it??
More people would end up leaving this dungeon type than the amount of people who currently leave keys.
That’s just how the game works.
You did not explain how any of your terrible idea will really work and then said “endurance” as if it means anything.
What item level loot is dropping?
How are you upgrading the key if there is no timer?
as for your ideas
There is no timer. Take as long as you like and strategize-do this before the run
To compensate, everything hits really hard. You will need cc, you will need kill order. Itdoes now
The only way to downgrade your key is not killing the last boss / finishing the run- Which would just mean waiting on hero for any hard boss.
m+ is fine as it is, also this sounds horrible in pugs like why would i want to stay trapped for hours with randoms, when i can do a bunch of other normal m+ runs in that time.
That’s great, but doesn’t change the fact that your assertion that timers don’t add difficulty is objectively wrong.
Another thing potentially worth considering is to use multiple smaller timers instead of a single monolithic timer.
So imagine a medium-to-large dungeon that has 2-5 natural breakpoints spread throughout. Each “section” has a timer attached, but you get a respite in the form of safe zones in-between so people can take a moment to discuss what didn’t go well in the section that was just completed, go take a bathroom break, deal with their goldfish catching on fire, etc.
This is an excellent take in my opinion. The pressure is also removed - or reduced - when running with friends or folks that are generally aligned in their expectations of the run. Obviously the latter is not always available or easy to schedule.
This is another cool take. Almost analogous to the 3rd and 6th floor of Torghast runs giving the player an area of unhindered rest/safety. Maybe base it off X percent killed or N bosses downed?
All that written, I think completion runs are the key right now, but I like the creative options folks are coming up with.