No one here is saying that, not least of which is me. We know they got to Stormwind, what happened to them after is unknown however.
They did not. They pruposely kept it a mystery until now. Like sure, maybe someone in the Alliance killed them. But we know don’t know who or why. Again, the entire city was under Onyxia’s grasp and she would certain want to make sure the Alliance gains a new enemy and not a new ally.
We have seen people like say Vereesa try to reach out to her sister. Sylvanas not totally on the up and up about her want to truly reconnect with people to the point she was murdering her sister and nephews. Like, maybe there own actions have as much to do with them becoming “forsaken” where as other undead like the death knights/darkfallen got welcomed back into the Alliance.
More like how much she wanted her own pawns for hew own needs. Don’t forget she blackmailed the blood elves to send their forces to Northrend.
I don’t know. I got my wish awhile back in wanting the Alliance to have a bigger role in both Amirdrassil’s defense and the reclaimation of Gilneas. I got my wish and proved certain detractors wrong. So who knows, third time might be the charm.
Regardless, as of right now you cannot say 100% these emissaries were killed by the Alliance.
“But I want YOU to play the evil side so I can have the fun of feeling righteous in PVP/HvA and also throw it in your face on the forums any time we’re on opposite sides of an argument.”
Enough with the humans. Give us a timeskip and make Dagran Thaurissan II our Alliance bad guy. They’ve been making the dwarves boring as a faction for too long now.
I can only repeat that I don’t see any “mystery”. The narrative devices are clear enough and to think otherwise renders those parts of the story pointless.
Now maybe you are putting out hope that it was a deliberate misdirection. I have to say, they would have used that before they killed off “Banshee Queen Sylvanas” and replaced her with “Ranger General Sylvanas”. The narrative utility of that is pointless now. Even the idea of Forsaken-human reconciliation has started without it.
Not sure the point you are making here. You don’t have to be good or evil to be forsaken.
But Sylvanas’ character is, as I said, a point I’m interested in. The whole “Good Alliance - Evil Horde” meme has alway pushed people to characterize Sylvanas as pure evil, when she is a complex and tragic character.
Once aspect of this is the attempt of ascribing to her only the most evil of motives. But it is clear to me that while she believes she has lost faith in her old beliefs, they are still there deep down. (A plausible outcome for someone who was forsaken.) The most classic example of this is the “Lament of the Highborne” quest line. We also see this in how much she was hurt by Vanessa’s betrayal. We see this in her aid to the Blood Eves.
The worst part is we still have these characters used. Even if Genn has been softened, Admiral Rodgers is still out there kicking. Obviously Talanji is, Belmont and Geya’rah too. Ivar has been pretty quiet lately. The Sylvanas Sunreaver was last seen safe in his iceblock so assuming he isnt locked up somewhere he can be a pretty good ‘nobody’ to stir trouble. Our exiled tauren who dared to strike back against a genocide are out there too.
All that just to say is we can do it, they choose not to for better or worse.
I would say she was complex and tragic until the start of BfA, when behind-the-scenes squabbles pushed her into pure evil territory. Then after the person responsible for that was booted, the remaining team tried to pull her back into “complex and tragic” territory, with limited success.
It is kinda interesting to speculate what the intent was in the mess that followed.
The “killing hope” was mustache-twirling evil. That was what we had in BfA.
In the book she was actually delusional. She thought she was doing everyone, including the Night Elves, a favor. As the SL cinematic had her say. “I will set us all free”. Was that the first step in undoing what Afrisiabi had done?
I think people hate Calia because she’s the polar opposite of Slyvanas Windrunner. Of course, to most people, being the exact opposite of a genocidal, chemical weapon using, oppressive war criminal tyrant would be a good thing. But Slyvanas stans gonna stan.
Really though, I think most people like Slyvanas for what she was supposed to be instead of what she ended up being. Everyone wanted her to be a complex, morally grey, tortured and tragic character. But from the very start of Cataclysm onward she was just a mustache-twirling villain. There’s nothing “morally gray” about showering a civilian city in a chemical bomb.
She was planning on killing her sister and nephews because she was “lonely”. And this was back in Warcrimes. She is certainly tragic but she is no more complex then any of the other villains who all decided they were right to weaponize their traumas to justify their genocidal and villainous tendencies. Yes this includes Arthas. The fact Garrosh of all people wanted her not to use the plague and was even questioning her morality should have been a red flag for everyone.
Wrong. We hate her because she activley sabotages the Horde politics and tries to force concepts like Hope, Light and general scyophancy towards the alliance when for the most time of the game they were the most obvious enemies. And it seems she ignores the rest of the council and acts solo alot of times to get her own will done instead of listening to her people. Which Belmont and Faranell like to call out. I feel like instead of Calia the Black Bride and Mortuus should have gotten her seat in leadership.
Not at all. I don’t like Sylvanas, but even I know this isn’t why most people hate Calia. They dislike her because she’s incredibly forced, and no one wants a special snowflake Light zombie leading the Forsaken. She doesn’t embody anything that the Forsaken are and have gone through. She’s a fraud.
The way she became undead is just lame, she doesn’t suffer the way the Forsaken do, she hasn’t suffered the way they do and yet she is meant to be the “leader” of the Forsaken? It’s a crock. If they had just made her straight up undead the way the Forsaken are, then she would be a much better character and probably more liked.
We visited it again in BFA. The Bilgewater cartel is currently building a new city on top of the old port so its possible the rest might have survived as well.
The most tragic thing is how impossibly dumb the writer (cough Golden cough) wrote Sylvanas’ logic towards having her sister and nephews live with her. Sylvanas actually thought that her people wouldn’t be happy with a living elf family in Forsaken lands.
I had to laugh, I seriously cracked up. Like… all those Orcs, and Elves, and the rest of the Horde races who are spread throughout Forsaken Lordaeron suddenly just never existed. And the Forsaken people would never allow their Queen to house her elven sibling and family, despite sending all that aid to Silvermoon, and having Elven Ambassadors sitting in the royal chambers since Burning Crusade.
No no no, there are no living in West-Lordaeron. We’ve always been at war with Eurasi–I mean The Alliance. That’s why she had to turn her sister and nephews into Darkfallen, because it’s her people’s prejudices that won’t let her have nice things.
The writer was just unbelievably dense, and obviously pays the Forsaken story no mind whatsoever. This seed of ignorance sprouted into a full grown plant when she later rewrote their entire society in Before the Storm, and bore the most rotten inedible fruit in the Sylvanas novel to follow.