As long as Alliance characters and NPCs are not forced into this “lets forget this all happened and be friends” or at the very least “forced to work together again for the 100th time against our will” I would say the Forsaken and the Horde can do whatever the hell they want. Just don’t blow up any more of our stuff.
BFA’s cinematic kumbaya cinematics were everything wrong with faction wars and how Blizzard always forces the Alliance to hold the bag.
nods
nods
nods
realizes that the stack of soapboxes the preaching gnome has been standing on are all labelled ‘DANGER: HIGHLY FLAMMABLE’, and fingers start twitching almost unconsciously towards the flint and tinder in the belt pouch
Attractiveness really isn’t the main factor her. Her aesthetic is just completely off. I’m a fan of the old prophecy tier set too but I don’t wear it when I’m trying to rep the Forsaken.
That being said I think the Forsaken can be attractive. But they should be somewhere between a goth staggering out of a methadone clinic and a baleful Victorian ghost splattered with blood.
I’ve evidence this is a more desirable look than I suspect some might think;
What did the Forsaken do again?
The Loyalist Rebel Split was pretty down the middle. More Forsaken, Mag’Har, Goblins and Sin’Dorei were loyal to Sylvanas but Tauren arrested Baine while Zelling and Voss went against Sylvanas.
Others still kept right tf out of it like the Zandalari and NBorne and I definitely can’t blame them seeing as they just got here.
None of the Horde’s wrongdoing in BFA was uniquely the Forsaken’s.
Does Faol state this? I don’t specifically recall him doing so. I am replaying and will try to note more.
It’s been pretty inconsistent though. The Dark Clerics use Light magic and even outright tell you to;
"Our power comes from darkness and shadow, name, but that is not your only role. You have acknowledged that there is merit in knowing the healing arts. This is wise. But before you can know the dark, you must also know the light. And for this, I have a test for you."
Zelik is more an undead Paladin being enslaved by Kel’Thuzad than a genuine DK. He definitely uses the Light. Far as I can tell the only hard reference to it being unpleasant comes from a dev interview about Wrath. And that’s more about how a Forsaken light wielder will eventually remember how much having ribs jutting out of your torso would hurt.
And by now in addition to Calia we’ve LForged DKs. Who don’t bother me nearly as much as LForged SPriests or Holy Velves because those forces have had explosively volatile reactions before.
I’m against LForged Undead for the same reason I think Mechanelves would be stupid. Suppose it’s more than possible from the setting but it’s extremely off brand.
Feel anyone who wants to play one is trying way too hard to be not like the other ghouls.
From what I remember, the lore reason why we can’t have Forsaken paladins is because the Light would destroy the undead paladin trying to wield it. They could change that easily in Dragonflight, and I’d be wrong, but that was always the excuse on why we have undead priests but not undead paladins.
FM, they could introduce Forsaken Paladins as a new class/race combo early in Dragonflight. They could also use the excuse of Calia’s Lightforging ability to make it possible. But it does kind of re-write years of established Forsaken lore.
I would be okay with morally grey Forsaken, but morally light Forsaken just feels so way off brand. Alonsus is the exception, not the rule, and he’s not even a Forsaken. (he’s a faction neutral character that only follows the Light, his only allegiance is to the Conclave.)
There are undead Paladins in the Scarlet Risen though. Quite a lot of them.
That’s why I’ve argued before to use them as an explanation to make them playable. If they want to go with the Light hurting them - well they’re Scarlets so they’d be into that.
Personally I’m okay with it being vague. Some RPers like the tortutered “But lo my faith still shines!” vibe. I don’t really bother with that but do write Ben’s Light as being more ghostly white with a hint of violet or azure anyway. Because I really love that Penance glyph where it turns it into shadowy light bolts and I wish all his spells could look like that.
They are classified as warriors not paladins. They may have been paladins in life, but are reduced to warriors in death.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Risen
Here are all the classes, they have priests. but we already know undead can be priests.
Classes are mage, priest, warrior, hunter and monk.
No paladins. Forsaken cannot be paladins.
Take it you haven’t met Crusader Lord Valdelmar then.
He uses Crusader Strike, Devotion Aura and Hammer of Justice.
Speculation on wowpedia says he was made by Balnazzar, my. Balnazzar was able to use the Light masquerading as Saidan Dathrohan.
This is inconclusive evidence forsaken can use the Light. The Risen are a dreadlord run organization, are we even sure most of them are not nathrezim? Balnazzar was able to wield Ashbringer even in his demon form. He even helped create Light’s wrath.
Uh. No it doesn’t. It presumes the cause of his undeath is Balnazaar as he’s the cause of the Scarlet Risen in Stratholme.
It’s not explained in the questline how they became undead. Also you kill him in the questline. And furthermore we see the Light has severely adverse effects on the denizens of Revendreth so I find it extraordinarily less likely a Dreadlord could.
Undead use the Light all the time in game. A bunch of stock Argent NPCs, Apothecary Lydon, pretty much every Dark Cleric involved in combat.
Really not sure where youre getting this.
Cool. But the undead can use the Light. Nature magic is what they straight up can’t wield, far as I can tell, as that’s the pantheon they’re cut off from.
It might well be pretty unpleasant to wield but they can certainly use it. The Cult of the Forgotten Shadow outright tells you to use it.
There’s only the two undead Paladins with Zelik and Valdemar. I could’ve sworn there was something called a Risen Cavalier as well who did as well but I can’t find any info on one.
But what if any difference there is between a Priest and Paladin using it is pretty speculative at best.
Also now we have LForged Death Knights. So. Kinda think this is a moot argument anyhow.
I’ve actually argued for Forsaken Paladins before. It’s one of my first ever posts on the story forums. I would have them be more Lawful Neutral, Judge Dredd themed though. That’d be fun.
I find this excerpt from Balnazzar’s wowpedia page to be very interesting
Balnazzar can possess the body of a creature he has slain through the use of his energy drain ability. In doing so, his form turns to a misty cloud that invades and takes over the corpse, while the soul of the slain creature moves on to its final reward (or punishment). The slain creature cannot be raised from the dead through any means other than a true resurrection for as long as Balnazzar possesses it (True resurrection ejects him from the body at once). His power sustains the body so it does not decompose, in fact, it appears in all respects as if alive.
Calia is pretty “pristine” isn’t she?
Ren, that’s patently ridiculous. I’m replaying the Western Plaguelands. The Crusader Lord is not that deep or interesting of a character. He says
“The Scarlet Crusade will never die! Undeath was merely a setback!” as a fun reference to Kael’thas.
You kill him. And then the Argents take over Tyr’s Hand. Why in God’s name would he be a dreadlord?
Shadowlands pretty much tells us that the nathrezim have successfully infiltrated us at every single step of our story. There is a much bigger game that they are playing, a long cosmic game, and I don’t think it’s even remotely over yet.
Balnazzar has the strongest ties to the story of Ashbringer, the Ashbringer story is not over yet. For as long as there is a paladin player character, Balnazzar will be our personal villain. That’s just my opinion and yes i have my theories about Calia and I know those are off the wall theories. But it does possibly relate to Calia and the future of the Forsaken if they are still following the Scarlet Crusade resurgence as a plot point.
The Scarlets think they are following Calia’s son. We know a son doesn’t exist, so who is this new villain?
They can take this story two ways
Forsaken Alliance 2.0 koombaya party “everyone’s morally good and friends now! hurrah”
OR
They can write an interesting and exciting story for the Forsaken for once, without having us sacrifice everything that made them cool. I want the Forsaken to have their moment. Calia ain’t it.
Okay? This seems like a really torturous bend of logic to pretend there isn’t one of two undead Paladins in game. The other being Sir Zelik. Or is he also a Dreadlord? Maybe you’re a Dreadlord! Maybe I’m a Dreadlord! Gasp! Kennedy, Oswald and the bullet? All dreadlords!
Seriously though Calia is not anathema to the Forsaken because shes Light based. The CotFS stresses a mastery of both Light and Shadow.
She sucks because she’s a non character who wandered in from stage left who’s the completely wrong aesthetic. She doesn’t even have a spooky voice! That’s like the one thing you’ve to get right.
Forsaken Paladins would be 100% okay in my book. Just need to give them the right aesthetic and they’d fit in.
Could even have them taking orders from a mysterious talking severed head. Thats what the IRL Templars got accused of.
Do you know who sends you on the quest to kill him?
Nathanos.
Balnazzar hated being thwarted by Sylvanas so much he vowed to wipe out her and her Forsaken. in the Ashbringer comic Balnazzar helps facilitate the creation of the blight used in the Wrathgate, and he delivers it to Putriss.
No. No he doesn’t. Archmage Angela Dosantos does. You’re reading from the wrong part of the Wiki.
Ren I literally just did the quest like a day ago WTF is this conversation lol
Whatever then, I’m probably wrong anyways. I was just excited about possible story points.
I hate how consistently boring wow story is.
This whole game is aged and boring.
They pitched a new expansion, and they don’t even have a lead narrative designer. They have no idea how to write a good story, Shadowlands and BFA are evidence of that.
Yeah BFA and SL were garbage. Nothing interesting happened. It was all too stupid and incoherent to theorycraft about. And just outright broke the lore in the stupidity.
Best thing they can do is fix up Teldrassil and Tirisfal then hastily move tf on.
Thankfully the RP scenes pretty fun though. Even if it’s kinda depressing amateurs are writing better stories than anything Blizz comes up with.