what they mean is Blizzard-Approved Fun, which isnt like actual fun. they have to properly curate your fun because if you have too much fun, you might expect that level of fun from other pieces of content. that is something Blizzard will not allow.
Blizzard Games, a place to have fun*
You claim that you and others like you… and I quote… “find thrill in challenging themselves” but yet will flock to the “best meta” classes, FOTM classes, whatever gets the content done the easiest.
If people like you loved the challenge, then why not simply don’t use those classes?
Let’s say 1 class had a fun ability that was deemed “overpowered”. Your argument is “well, pfft, then everybody would wanna play that class”.
Well, yeah. I agree with that.
But then you also go “you wouldn’t understand because you don’t seek to challenge yourself” …
Well… the people who are claiming to want to do challenging content are doing everything they can to make it as easy as possible, like choosing the “best class”.
Are they really seeking the challenge, or do they merely want the rewards and the challenge is just part of the chore required to get the reward?
EDIT: I would also like to point out the plethora of scandals involving top raiding guilds and exploits. Many, many examples of it. And of course they get suspended/banned/etc and they whine about it and go “durrrr we didn’t know” … which is just stupid as any layman would read what happen and know that wasn’t intended.
If you don’t use those classes you won’t get invited to the challenging content you want to play.
Sure, if the whole group is a premade then we can play whatever, but if you ever want to PUG high-end content you better pray the class you play is meta.
When you stick a 27 key in you’re not playing it for loot. Lol.
I was under the impression that PUGing was the worst way to raid? Especially Mythic… who PUGs mythic?
So, what you’re really saying is that the people who actually do want the challenge are in a tiny, tiny majority even amongst players who are doing said content.
Right, gotcha.
The majority of high end raiders don’t actually want the challenge.
This is what it always boils down to.
“People that do content I dont like, are worthy of being insulted”
And this.
Gross misinformation. Through ignorance or intentional trolling.
You’re asking for a Monty Haul campaign.
They never last.
It’s a terrible idea. We’ve known this since the early 1970’s.
M+ exists.
Anyone doing high keys is looking to challenge themselves.
The loot shuts off way, way, WAY before that.
If you perceive “tryhards” as an insult, then you’re self-conscious about it.
I mean, otherwise you’d take it as a compliment.
Well, again, just follow the logic for a moment.
“I want hard challenge!” says the person who does everything they can to mitigate the challenge of the content they’re doing.
Do they REALLY want the challenge?
Your logic is removing context. Making your entire statement illogical.
Tryhard is used as a derogatory term. it always has been. No one has ever used “tryhard” to describe others, especially in content they are talking down upon…in a positive light.
“Oh you want to race a marathon? Why are you training hard? Why not just get drunk the night before, that will make it extra challenging?”
Some people like to push as high as they can or as far as they can while bringing themselves to their peak. To hit the limit of what is possible.
Straight from the typewriter of Gary Gygax, the man who invented role-playing games, on this topic:
Thoughtless placement of powerful magic items has been the ruination of many a campaign. Not only does this cheapen what should be rare and precious, it gives player characters undeserved advancement and empowers them to become virtual rulers of all they survey. This is in part the fault of this writer, who deeply regrets not taking the time and space to stress repeatedly the importance of moderation. Had the whole been with an admonition to use care and logic in placement or random discovery of magic items, had the intent, meaning, and spirit of the game been more fully explained, much of the give-away aspect of such campaigns would have willingly been squelched. The sad fact is, however, that this was not done, so many campaigns are little more than a joke, something that better DM’s jape at and ridicule - rightly so - because of the foolishness of players with astronomically high levels of strength and no real playing skill. These god-like characters boast and strut about with scores of mighty magic items, artifacts, relics adorning them as if they were Christmas trees decked out with tinsel and ornaments. Not only are such “Monty Haul” games a crashing bore for most participants, they are a headache for their DMs as well, for the rules of the game do not provide anything for such play - no reasonable opponents, no rewards, nothing!
-Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Dungeon Master’s Guide, by Gary Gygax, Revised Edition (1979), page 92
I dont know why you think this “Gary Gygax” (is that even a real name? sounds like something chatgpt came up with) would know anything about character advancement in rpgs.
Then why focus on “the best class” or “the best meta” and such if you’re looking for challenge?
Wouldn’t you be, like, picking the worst classes instead?
“Hey look at me, I did a 25 key in a group comprised of the worst classes in the game!” That would be something to brag about, yes?
There’s a little bit of a difference between making your body as fit as possible (IE, wearing the best gear you can get) and choosing the best class.
Wow.
Just…wow.
You don’t know who the father of all RPGs is?
He was making a joke.
This is literally an event. It’s called Break the Meta. You think you’re being clever but you’re three steps behind.
He did a terrible job of actually expressing that.
Why not try to do the highest key you can?
Isn’t that a challenge?
You mean that guy they quoted that disagrees with you?
Must feel bad to have the father of all RPGs think you idea isn’t good.
No?
Any ability that’s overperforming can be fixed by nerfing it in some way. If people love it because it’s fun, it can stay the same mechanically, just nerf the numbers a bit to stay in line.
If they don’t like it after the nerf then they didn’t like the ability, they liked being stronger than their peers due to poor balance.
Remix can get away with things not being perfect because it’s literally just old content with a new coat of paint to kill time with. To some extent it’s essentially a leveling event and not much more. Doesn’t fly for new endgame content.
If they want to experiment with potentially broken things in the normal game current expansion, keep it to world content or its own hole somewhere (ie: Horrific Visions, Torghast). Even World Content is kind of pushing it because going from that to instanced content would feel bad if you’re allowed to be OP in the world and then it’s taken away from you for “real” content.
Times change.
He was talking about pen&paper games.
A computer game is way different, and we don’t have hours to sit around rolling dice nowadays.
The world is way different than it was back in 1970, and we are playing much different games than the original D&D.
Can you expand on this?
Why is it “way different”, specifically within the context of balance, abilities, and gear with character progression?