Lol, why is this hidden?
I can see why that post was flagged :
That is pretty offensive to those who wear lingerie 24/7 as a lifestyle. They are Lingeriests. They must be respected. Their clothes is proper. I see them.
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I sincerely apologize to the Lingeriests, I didn’t think their proper clothing was proper for a theater of war. If this is what gets me forum banned then its only right.
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I kind of get both perspectives on that question. It’s a matter of interpretation and unfortunately the intended meaning of the question is at this point less important than the intent behind the devs reaction to it.
Which is to say that it’s meaningless if she meant ‘when will these characters be less sexualized’ OR ‘when will these characters be less attractive’ because depending on your point of view those topics are either the same or mutually exclusive - (beauty is in the eye of the beholder and what is crass to one person is art to another.)
What matters is that the devs did not take the question seriously. It goes beyond it being a ‘sh!tty answer’, as GC put it, to being one that belittles the idea and the intent behind the idea without bothering to clarify what the intent was.
If they had been more engaged with the topic they might have asked what she meant or what she might prefer, or even have given a more valid (if cynical) response which is the obvious - sex sells - but instead they just turned it into a big joke. If that’s because they don’t take the topic seriously or because there wasn’t a PC answer they could give in response is up for debate, but either way it’s the disrespect that’s bad.
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I hope most here realize afrasiabi is the “sacrifical lamb”
and certain parts of the actiblizzard allegations are on activision.
The women working and men playing vidya is (surprisingly) on the cod team.
The stuff about nudes of the deceased is from what i gathered at activision.
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On a personal note, this is probably what will prevent me from going head over heels on anything coming off of the “spinoff” Blizzard studios. There’s no way that the big, revered names like Morhaime and Metzen and didn’t know.
But that is again, a personal note. This thread concentrates on the hypothetical of what would happen if this one guy’s contributions were removed from the story.
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Well, im just gonna say it.
Its not that deep guys. Like, I 100% agree wows writers can’t write a good powerful female character, likely do to their sexism, but I don’t think they put nearly that much thought into the story of orcs vs nelves. Nelves are in conflict with the Horde because of their location and amount of content.
The two big Alliance vs Horde expansions had the nelves do most of the fighting because it’s easier to say “The Horde marched one zone over to nelf lands” then saying “The Horde Marched South through Wastelands, Mountains, and Swamps to fight Stormwind”, especially since Orgrimmar is on Kalimdor. Nelves also have more Zones then basically every other race, so if a world war had conflict in a lot of zones, nelves would have more zones being invaded.
Also, they don’t always lose. I know “But it doesn’t feeeeeeel like a victory” yadda yadda yadda, thats just because blizzard can never right good victories. Nelves won almost every single zone they fought in in Cataclysm. The only Zone they “Lost” was a zone they’d effectively abandoned by that point. War of the Thorns sucked horribly, but the Night Elves at least both had a warfront where they beat the Horde (Once again, even if it felt like a loss it was not a loss, blizz just sucks at writing), and have been confirmed to have recovered their zones in Exploring Kalimdor.
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Surely the problem is exactly this line right here.
“have confirmed”… no no… show the damn thing instead of telling us about it.
If the Horde is going to have display of their power where they burn and conquer their enemies why are the Alliance wins relegated to books or twitter posts?
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I disagree - the reason it doesn’t feel like a victory is because our victories don’t get resources devoted to their presentation, whereas other favored parts of the narrative do. That is clear and obvious bias, and we now know the reason for it.
Past that - selecting Teldrassil as the target is accepting an already toxic start to an expansion that I wholly reject, including the scenario, the concept of destroying playable cities, the application of dodgy ideologies to the Horde - all of it.
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I wish they would destroy more capital cities to be honest. I don’t like the idea of being immune to the plot because you have an auction house and a bank
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At this point, I hope the whole franchise burns down - and the way things are going, I may get that wish.
Completely agree.
Gee, its almost like, as i said multiple times.
BLIZZARD CANT WRITE!
Especially victories, there hasn’t been a victory in WoW’s faction conflict thats actually felt good for the people who “Won”. BfA was overloaded, but even then i dont think their gonna redo every zone to show the nelves victory. A scenario would have been nice, but Blizzard doesn’t do those small things, which is a huge shame.
If we could trade Battle for Dazar’alor for a raid where the Nelves push the Horde out of the Forest, I think literally everyone would sign up on it, but we didn’t get it, and we’re likely not getting another faction war for a decently long while.
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A week or so ago I may have agreed with this and established it as the end of it.
I can no longer see that as the end of it.
Really, because while I know there sexist writing in WoW, i dont think beyond “Hush Tyrande” the nelves were the focus of it.
Correlation does not Equal Causation, especially when you guys are wrong in “Nelves always Lose”. We already know they don’t, and the reasons their victories feel bad is because no one gets good victories. You either win at a “Terrible Cost” or you get guilt tripped 24-7 for something you the player had no control over.
There may be more to the Nelves being targeted in War of the Thorns, but I think its mostly to do with, well, the fact they aren’t Humans then them having a lot of female warriors. Metzen said the War of the Thorns was not planned when he was writing, and it seems to be added in rather hastily. If the Afriasaibi wanted an Atrocity that destroys a faction capital, he had 3 choices. Stormwind and Ironforge are “Old Warcraft” which fits his ideals of the faction conflict better.
Maybe i’m wrong and there was sexism involved, but even then I think that’d have less to do with the Nelven Culture, and more to do with the one who pulled the Trigger. Many IRL Abuse Victims have found what Sylvanas went through deeply relatable, and WoW has always struggled with the idea of a strong, sensible female leader. Look at how Jaina ping pongs between personalities, or how also in BfA Yrel was offscreen turned into a genocidal maniac.
I don’t think Nelves in and of themselves were ruined by sexism, but I can see how Sexism negatively effects wows writing. I do think Nelves suffered from Alex’s writing treating them as “Expendable” as well, but moreso because he liked EK alliance far more then them. Nelves “Losing” has nothing to do with their current status since we know they actually win most of their engagements, it’s just Blizzard can’t write victories well.
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Night Elf fans have been calling out potential sexism as the cause for repeatedly targeting the game’s matriarchal race, and arranging their losses and victories such that Blizzard doesn’t have to watch their hypermasculine Orcs - the ones that they made a metal band for and repeatedly hype up - lose to feminine elves. We were repeatedly told that this was nonsense because there was no way there was a pervasive culture of sexism running rampant about the company.
Turns out there was a pervasive culture of sexism running rampant about the company.
And sure, we can credibly pin the fate of Sylvanas on this culture too - that doesn’t remove my concern, and at this point I think we’re sticking our head in the sand when we run about dismissing this connection.
Thats not a writing issue though, its more of a resources issue dedicated to depict the story in the game.
Do you really want a raid dedicated to the Horde being evil conquerors that the Alliance have to forcibly remove with the finale being the Horde characters sounding a retreat as they run back to Orgrimmar?
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It certainly is a writing issue. You write to your strengths. If you can’t properly express the story you are trying to tell, you probably shouldn’t be telling that story.
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If you are framing the question that way then I would agree then.
Kyalin, no offence, but the Night Elves have made hundreds of Conspiracy theories to justify them whining that their zones didn’t get updated post Cataclysm to reflect their victories, the fact the one calling the devs sexist was right in that blizzard had to deal with internal sexism I am willing to chalk up to coincidence, mostly because their “evidence” orcs beating nelves, Isn’t nearly as prevalent as they act. Even in BfA, the issues are mostly related to the Forsaken beating the Night Elves and being mega super evil while doing so, while the one important Orc character cries about it.
There is an issue with sexism, but i don’t think its what caused the night elven storyline to be bad.
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