I just think that TBC is a better base for changes than OG WoW at this point. Everything that I would want to do for Classic, TBC is a stepping stone in that direction.
Sure, you can argue that Arena gear is a problem.
You can argue that DRs are inconsistent and that the system should have been better designed.
You can argue that RNG CCs were just dumb in application.
You can argue that Spell Reflect is poorly designed.
You can argue that Spell Steal is poorly designed.
You can argue that PvE and PvP balance were frustrating at top levels.
There are tons of things that TBC addressed and did not address. But, the overall experience is leaps and bounds better than OG WoW ever was.
I just don’t see the point to talking about Classic+ given that the dev team did not already step in to address major problems.
Problems like PvP grinding, Spell batching, GDKPs, the AoE cap, On use items, broken item scaling, poor itemization, ICDs, World Buffs, etc. These are problems that should have been addressed from day 1 that they were spotted.
But that they haven’t been addressed up to this point, I don’t see what purpose it serves now to start addressing these things instead of moving on to TBC where most of these issues are addressed to one degree or another.
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Classic + will happen. It’s just not going to be right away. They probably all ready started working on it. They were surprised by how many people came back to play classic. They consistently underestimate the audience for their game and lose money because of it. Most people who came back weren’t no changers. They were first timers, or people who expected changes. No changers lead to many of these players simply leaving the game.
What’s going to happen is this.
TBC --> Wotlk --> end of wotlk Announce classic + --> classic + released 2-3 years later.
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I anything they need a sequel. Classic + will not bring in NEW players and will alienate many existing players.
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The only people completely opposed to a Classic+ are the same 5-10 forumgoers, and the 1% private server fanatics that would like Vanilla forever or fresh Vanilla resets every X amount of time. These guys can have their Vanilla forever servers if they want; what they don’t realize is that they don’t have to drag us all into this fantasy.
Those of us who aren’t mindless #nochanges automatons (most people, as others have already pointed out) recognize that an OSRS-type approach to Classic+ is something that would be interesting. If anything, it’s a great opportunity for Blizzard to dabble into what could be perceived as WoW 2.
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Blizzard is not going to create new content for a 15 year old, mostly dead version of the game.
It just isn’t going to happen.
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I really don’t think we want to see what new Classic content designed by these retail devs would look like. It would probably be an absolute disaster.
Best to stick with what we know is going to be good, and that means TBC next.
And I think Blizzard is well of aware of all of this, and the no brainer smart financial move for them is to go for the sure thing, TBC. It’s just money lying on the ground waiting for them to pick up.
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By whom? Certainly not by me.
But yes, we now know the direction the game should have taken. We even know some of the content that got scrapped in favor of TBC: A battleground with Azshara scenery, the Hyjal zone… We even know what the next tier of raiding would be if it didn’t get scrapped to make way for TBC.
TBC is not this darkness. I’m all for supporting a Classic+, but TBC is a great xpac and it will be nice to play through it again with blizzard servers.
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This is something Ive thought about quite a bit but it is hard to ignore the warnings of those who would remind you of who is running this thing. This is an entirely different Blizzard.
Even so Ive allowed myself to think on it and I think if the WoW franchise has any future its with a straight up reboot - with Classic +. Retail has no future - not a great one anyway. Id have to write another 50 posts to explain why but I just dont have the energy anymore.
Vanilla launched and gave way to TBC with a lot of stuff on the table that didnt make it into the original vision of the game. If ActiBlizz was smart enough to hire the right team almost separate from themselves that could complete that vision and then take it from there that would be a much more successful venture than anything the retail team could pump out in ten lifetimes.
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Like he said, people like you were saying similar stuff when people like us wanted classic to be back. Have fun in retail.
Sure. Many people will quit regardless of what happens in the future. Many will also join.
Personally, I’m not against Classic+ at all. I think it could be very fun. I’m also not against TBC Classic.
Classic has shown that there is an appetite for Classic. Will the same people be interested in TBC Classic? Will TBC Classic bring back different people or even new players?
Would Classic+?
I don’t know, but I suspect they could both be quite popular. One seems much easier to implement than the other though.
I dont think it leaves much of that status quo it has now until anther company comes along to pull people away from wow. Of them i think Riot has the best potential in Ghostcrawler to make something that ~could~ appeal to that crowd in a better way. Though i get the feeling its going to be more like Genshin Impact than the classic MMOs we probably want.
Excuse me. I should have said: switching between characters, sticking your fingers in your ears and alternating “I can’t hear you!” with ad hominems is working for you, perhaps, but it won’t get you the version of the game you want.
MMO fatigue was a big buzzword like 7 years ago. This prompted a whole bunch of indie projects to jump on the old school MMO revival bandwagon. Thats been a complete failure and a disaster to this point - but it showed there was a decent market for grindy choice laden mmorpgs.
Look at all the vanilla private servers still on the go even now. All the projects that let people play DAoC, SWG, Shadowbane, etc. There is a desire to go back to when these games were at theyre best - niche.
I dont know if WoW classic fits in the niche category but its the original and you already know the crowd is there so why not? Again, you have to remember who youre asking to do it but if they managed to do it right then it represents a potential rebirth of the franchise that retail no longer offers - that ship sailed long ago.
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Korea never stopped making MMOs though in the US we moved on to the next tow big things with Mobas and BR games. I know that a bunch of the crowd funded mmos still are curning away tro get out though at this point its been what, 10 years almost? I dont have much faith in things like Camelot Unchained or others in that space. There are a few that could do things but i get the feeling of those classic MMO in the idea of DAoC EQ Lineage and even Classic wow are going to be pushed aside for that Fremium player and cash shops.
I have hopes for Ashes of creation. Less for Riot simply because i look at LoL and there other games and think of how they want to monetize them is never going to turn there mmo into anything more than a store front for skins. And i can play that now with FFXIV if i want to play the Fashion mmo.
I will say this again and again: the best “classic MMO” in the market is Old School Runescape, in particular the Ironman accounts. The only issue with it, and that is why I’m not playing it right now, is that not only it involves an ungodly amount of grinding, but also a skill ceiling high enough to be untouchable for most people, and content for that skill level (and that dedication to grinding) is being constantly developed.
Someone else out there really does get it. Thank you for posting. This thread was worth maintaining to finally read your earnest and pragmatic words. You are absolutely correct. There is no other truth than what you said on this matter.
This
There’s also a cost issue.
Implementing TBC for Classic should be relatively easy. Developer time and resources needed should be minimal. The assets, quests and artwork are all there. All that should be needed is some tweeking to get it to work with Classic and maybe a database upograde.
In contrast, implementing Classic+ would basically mean designing an entirely new expansion from the ground up. If they were doing this I would expect at 3-year development time, during which the efforts of hundreds of designers and artists would be needed.
Why spend all that extra time and effort to make a new expansion when they can go with the work that was already done?
Also, implementing TBC would be much more true to what early WoW players experienced. Those players played TBC, but they never played Classic+.
A main purpose of Classic is to allow players to experience WoW as it was. Classic+ would defeat that purpose.
@Zugfox:Yes, i think you are spot on with this.
@ Alteracswiss:this is what most likely will happen.