A Counter to the M+ Issue

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Minnienuker-whitemane

It’s not working either Dapler, people are leaving the game in droves for games like ESO and FF14 because those games are doing a much better job at catering to real MMO R P G gamers.

Yeah you are right, those games are catering to certain gamers who find wow too challenging.

[Minnienuker-whitemane]

@Vanya-emerald-dream

They weren’t “fine” the way they were before. It was a waste of developer time to create a dungeon that was only relevant for 1 or 1.5 patches, if that. Adding repeatability and scalability was one of the best things they could have done.

Weird, Wrath and Cata dungeons were run by people for the entire existence of those expansions. You guys are trying to rewrite history to fit your poor M+ arguments.

[Minnienuker-whitemane]

@Sôsari-dalaran

Yeah you are right, those games are catering to certain gamers who find wow too challenging.

Ah yes the classic ad hominem rears it’s ugly head. The confirmation bias is so crazy on these forums at times.

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Ehiztari-earthen-ring

And you wonder why I say you’re being disingenuous.

Of course gear matters.

And of course Torghast’s idiotic anima powers make this not a perfect analogy.

But what I said was true. I’ve seen even well-geared teams in there fail because what they thought was a safe pull turned out to be linked mobs.

Gear doesnt matter in torghast if you can go in as a fresh 60 and clear layer 8. If geared players are going and and failing they either picked terrible powers or they have no skill.

[Grizzle-eredar]

@Jamak-saurfang

Perfect for you yet its making keys toxic

What exactly makes it toxic? Forum goers love to throw this word around and tie it to keys. Yet I have yet to see anything that would be considered tocic behavior. And I’ve leveled many alts through various methods like strictly dungeon runs).

@Jamak-saurfang

It also takes a few hrs to a full day to get into keys.

again, not my experience. Even as anon meta melee DPS spec. Not saying it doesn’t happen. But I don’t think it’s near as frequent as you’re trying to make it out to be either.

@Jamak-saurfang

Reminds me of a 2k ip healer that couldn’t even heal the tank on the first mob pull. Sadly o Jane seen it happened 3 times so far.

I’ve also seen KSM tanks only use their active mitigation abilities a whopping 3 times before making it to the first boss. Who’s to really say what the issue was

[Annastasi-proudmoore]

@Ehiztari-earthen-ring

Why would a DO IT ALL, DO IT CAREFULLY challenge take away from that?

because doing it slowly and carefully is easy. full stop.

[Ehiztari-earthen-ring (Ehiztari)]

@Sôsari-dalaran

People wanted fast runs since the start. This did not begin with M+.

Honeychile, I’ve been playing this game on one account or another since 2 weeks after initial release.

Yes, it did.

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Minnienuker-whitemane

This idea that people need endless forms of progression for the entire life of a patch is just causing burn out.

And you are in favor of adding yet another path outlined by OP?

Also gearing isnt endless, it stops at 226 this patch.

[Farstrider-bleeding-hollow]

All I want is for them to change that dungeon that requires you to match up shapes in Ardenweald. I can’t imagine doing that place on mythic +. Like really? Match up shapes?

Back to the main topic, if you want to RP your way through a dungeon, chill with friends, and just goof off in general you can do regular mythic for that. On the other hand, I see no harm in adding a option to do whatever difficulty you want, but you shouldn’t get the good gear for doing it without a time limit. Taking out the time limit removes the challenge (or part of the challenge, at least). Mythic + gear is comparable to raid gear. Do you really think dungeon gear should be comparable to raid gear? I know you want it to, but do you actually feel it should be? My point is, why would anyone even raid if they could receive raid-quality gear or even close to raid-quality gear for doing a mythic + dungeon without the time limit?

[Annastasi-proudmoore]

then why have people been whining about gogogo since 2014?

also:
baron runs
ZA bear runs
Shattered Halls
etc.

[Minnienuker-whitemane]

@Yellöwböze-trollbane

Because the original version of the game was like 17 years ago. People, games, everything evolves.

Then make another game instead of destroying the game for a lot of the fans that liked the game the way it was. There is a reason TBC is popular even though there is a content drought.

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Ehiztari-earthen-ring

Honeychile, I’ve been playing this game on one account or another since 2 weeks after initial release.

Then you either have amnesia or you are in denial. Gogogo existed long before M+ was a thing. For you to say it wasn’t is disingenuous.

[Dapler-hyjal]

@Minnienuker-whitemane

Sorry that isn’t the case at all. Have you played Classic at all? Dungeons were busy the entire time Classic was a thing. Like many posters here, you are just way too focused on providing endless content for 1 character. It’s okay to be finished with content on a character, it allows you to play alts do professions and play other games during patch cycles.

I’m enjoying classic very much, but you’re not getting into a dungeon in the “old” world. Nothing stops you from making alts in SL and doing heroics and low keys. Those things get run every day.

I don’t think people are leaving because of M+. Keys are probably the most popular content in the game. Millions of keys have been run since launch. Retail’s problem is that the rest of the game isn’t fun lol.

[Grizzle-eredar]

@Minnienuker-whitemane

Weird, Wrath and Cata dungeons were run by people for the entire existence of those expansions

Introduction of badges for armor created repeatability during those xpacs as well.

[Ehiztari-earthen-ring (Ehiztari)]

@Annastasi-proudmoore

point to me anywhere this is stated officially.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120707202249/http://uk.gamespot.com/news/blizzard-entertainment-announces-world-of-warcraft-street-date-november-23-2004-6112390

The game was originally created as a Massive-Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game - per Blizzard’s own initial press releases.

[Minnienuker-whitemane]

@Sôsari-dalaran

And you are in favor of adding yet another path outlined by OP?

Also gearing isnt endless, it stops at 226 this patch.

If M+ is so popular, why aren’t they pumping out more dungeons then? We got a whomping 8 dungeons with SL lol. I really don’t think it is as popular as you M+ guys make it out to be. Most of the runs are carries and people running with their friends. The M+ pug scene is a toxic wasteland of jerks.

[Vanya-emerald-dream]

@Minnienuker-whitemane

Weird, Wrath and Cata dungeons were run by people for the entire existence of those expansions. You guys are trying to rewrite history to fit your poor M+ arguments.

It’s not rewriting history - it’s acknowledging that the game evolves and there were reasons for that evolution.

[Shockoclock-malganis]

I don’t think people are leaving because of M+. Keys are probably the most popular content in the game. Millions of keys have been run since launch. Retail’s problem is that the rest of the game isn’t fun lol.

I’m actually genuinely curious to know how many of those keys were run for fun and how many were people feeling obligated for the vault. Raw numbers are nice, but not necessarily proof that all those people enjoy the content.

[Grizzle-eredar]

@Minnienuker-whitemane

If M+ is so popular, why aren’t they pumping out more dungeons then? We got a whomping 8 dungeons with SL lol

Funny how it’s as popular as it is, without them pumping our more dungeons

[Minnienuker-whitemane]

@Dapler-hyjal

I don’t think people are leaving because of M+. Keys are probably the most popular content in the game. Millions of keys have been run since launch. Retail’s problem is that the rest of the game isn’t fun lol.

That is because they are leaning on systems like M+ to carry the game. Dungeon relevancy was never an issue you guys just have been gaslighted by a development team that has no idea how to develop a MMORPG.