WoW QoL was significantly damaged with the introduction of M+ and the endless (and contextually inappropriate) GO GO GO mentality of the generation of players that grew up in the game with it.
I’ve been looking at the forums for a few weeks now and I’m not alone or even just part of a tiny minority in that opinion.
So how about it Blizzard? How about offering a counter to M+ in the form of instances where you get rating and gear rewards for full clears with bonuses for LONGER times rather than shorter ones. Reward players for the “RP” part of MMO-RP-G instead of setting up a system that sets them up for being ostracized and ridiculed if they don’t want to play an MMO-RunAsFastToTheEndAsYouCan-G?
Edited to add based on something Jamak said below:
How about base the rewards on FULL CLEARS and NO DEATHS (or at least none not player-resurrected) with no timers. Could call it “Hard Core” mode but it would definitely lend itself to more careful, deliberate play than M+ does. Could even add affixes to it to make it more challenging. As long as it wasn’t a direct or indirect timer (like some incremental debuff that gets worse over time) I wouldn’t care.
17 Likes
Not even gonna lie, I really miss Challenge Mode (MoP Challenge Mode, that is). I really preferred it to M+ in Legion.
Now… M+ in Legion? I really enjoyed it, and I thought it was awesome. M+ in 8.1 was cool imo but otherwise eh, and in Shadowlands it’s just painful.
But yeah, it’d be nice to have a raid-esque M+ mode for sure.
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My QoL in WoW was improved with the introduction of M+, so not sure what you’re getting at.
Don’t like it, don’t do it. There’s raids that give you gear and ratings for longer battles.
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You do get that the point of the game is role play. This isn’t Fortnite. Blizzard has allowed it to drift far in that direction and the player base seems to be made up of kiddies who won’t accept that any other play style is legit.
That’s what I’m getting at.
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While I loathe the gogogogogogo mentality, I’m not sure this is the answer.
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I dunno. Rally races, they have an award for DLBF (Dead Last, But Finished) that’s actually a coveted award.
I’d love to see some love for a 3 hour Spires where literally every mob was killed and every treasure looted with the same team you went in with.
Yes, that’s an extreme and pretty dumb example, but Blizzard and the younger player base has been pushing HARD in the direction the game has gone and if they don’t want this game to descend into World of Instancecraft they’re gonna have to do something to bring back play that isn’t driven by “How fast can we get this done?”
M+ as “content” is cheap and easy for the Devs to set up. It’s a cop out on Blizzard’s part. I’d like to see them work to earn my sub money a little and find ways to something other than min-maxed speed runs.
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Just bring back the difficulty we saw in Cata heroic 5mans and I’ll be good.
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Challenge mode won’t drive up the participation metrics, it would actually bring it down alot as there is no progressive character power involved. You won’t have these same players run the same stuff every week .
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I’ve been a fan of the franchise since Warcraft II and I love Mythic+, so sotp pretending that just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean others don’t.
Like, hello, this is a franchise that originated in REAL-TIME STRATEGY, where time was always a resource you were measuring out and delegating for 30-45 minute gameplay segments. Mythic+ is if anything a return to the roots of the franchise where strategy and planning, tactics, and twitch have all been balanced relative to each other.
Indeed. World of Warcraft is Dragon Ball Z. The core game loop “is do things to make yourself stronger, so you can overcome greater challenges”. M+ successfully captures that essence, whereas CM failed horribly, very horribly, because it tried to reject the essence of the game.
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The point of the game is what I so choose it to be.
There used to be pvp specific realms for those who wanted PvP all the time
Normal realms for whatever you wanted
And role-play servers for those who wanted to focus on RPing. These still exist. How about you check one of these out so it’s more in line with your desires.
I enjoy competitive play and the battle sequence of the game. So that’s my point in the game
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I just can’t see Blizzard removing timers and still handing out good gear. Part of the challenge is trying to complete it before you run out of time. How do you keep that difficulty without a clock?
I like your idea OP.
It would be nice to have dungeons have a hard mode but not tied to a timer.
I do think that mythic plus made dungeons relevant again though.
Adding another mode for dungeons into the game I can get behind. It will give people more things to do during content droughts like this.
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It’s not that I don’t like it and don’t want to do it. It’s that it has poisoned an entire generation of WoW players into believing that the only legitimate play style is go go go go all the time, both in and out of M+.
I’m not suggesting at all that it should be removed.
I’m suggesting that rather than ONLY push towards min-maxed speed runs, Blizzard should also show some love for those of us who still recall what the genre “MMORPG” stands for.
This is NOT an RTS game. It’s a role-playing game.
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Participation rewards. He wants a participation ribbon. Which is funny because he’s blaming the generation that grew up with M+ for the current mentality of the game that’s rushing, but it’s that same generation that shares his view of “give me soemthing for nothing”
This isn’t about removing timers. It’s about inverting how they’re used in scoring. I’d like to see rewards for LONGER runs, maybe even status for the current LONGEST run (with the same five players start to finish).
That’s a little silly sounding, but it really isn’t any sillier than “Hey, let’s reward people for skipping 2/3 of the content we put in this instance and getting done as quickly as they can.”
So let’s reward people for going AFK for 2 hours and still beating the dungeon in 20 minutes when they do sit down and decide to run it?
Quick edit: timers are in okie so people don’t pull 1 pack, blow all their CDs, then wait for all cooldowns to be back up before the next pack. That’s taking the challenge out of it.
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lul
“Poisoned an entire generation” because people prefer more fun over less fun?
Let’s be clear about this bub - people like engaging in challenge. Grandpa-style pulls are not fun for most people. They’re not. If you’re bad and you have to do slow pulls just to keep up, that’s a you thing.
Look at the way Burning Crusade Classic is being played - people simply prefer having more fun and not having to deal with grandpa gamers. If you want to play “grandpa style”, just stick to easy content and “chill groups”.
Sadly, I was on an RP server for years and the M+ disease infected it as well. Blizzard stopped enforcing the naming rules on them (they had tighter rules that had to reflect, you know, RP) several XPACS ago. When the realms were clustered, Blizzard didn’t keep the RP realms together so the whole idea of RP on them got diluted even more.
Blizzard has been deliberately or through neglect killing RP for a decade.
I’d just like to see them move in the other direction for a bit.
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The timer can be a bummer. Removing it or some of the cancer affixes (or not putting cancer weeks week after week) could help
Or could do a torgast and make a death counter. hit the counter, fail the key (or make it harder)
I mean how do raids do it? There is no timer for completion. Except for boss enrage. So they could make harder bosses and trash to over come without a timer. Have a death count added. If you get so many deaths then you failed, idk there are ways to make things more difficult without a timer.
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