This is what he doesnt understand lol hes saying all these managing resources stuff like anyone said anything about that. He doesnt have a clue how dk works at all 
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Its an important part of the class, managing resources.
You have no room to tell anyone they have no clue when you equate fishing with forcing.
I mean I like the idea of KM to be less polarizing with its procs proccing during a global.
Some people simply donât want nice things I guess.
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Its based on auto attacks, those dont stop just because you are using an ability. Its also not worth having a swing timer so you hold off on an ability for .1 second because you dont want to overlap KM procs.
The only reason this is a problem now is because of inflated crit from the 2pc and people dont want to lose out on Glacial Advances. People asked for so much power to be on this 1 proc that if it doesnt happen, or you auto crit right before using Frost Strike within an Obliterate window, its going to feel bad but just because something feels bad for 1% of an expansion doesnt mean a change needs to be made.
There is a difference between âneedâ and what you said being a âwantâ.
This is just an assumption and trying to equate a need to a want. Thats all it is. I dont see KM stacking to 2 is a need. QoL changes arent typically a need.
A need would be making dead talents actually appealing. With the talent tree change who knows what is going to happen with any of the specs. Suggesting changes at this point when DK could be changed drastically with their design goals is just blowing hot air while insulting others like this OP is doing saying people dont know what they are talking about when what they explained is entirely contrary to how the spec is played. You can break down that paragraph and show how its not accurate at all, asking for a clarification and here they are acting like Will Smith at the Oscars. Over a damn question.
I rather see less damage hid behind procs and requirements like get x stacks after so many seconds to use this ability to its fullest, damage and talents locked behind Rime, Frostscythe requiring crits to do any meaningful damage, KM procs not holding so much weight so people will stop moaning about how bad Obliterate is to press outside of KM procs.
Despite all of that though, Frost is pretty balanced. Its been touched how often this expansion in terms of balance? 0? And its been mid to upper mid in terms of balance depending on how the fights are? Thats pretty good if you ask me.
The fact you donât understand how resource management would play into this shows that you donât understand what it is youâre asking for yourself.
Go into a PoF window and fire off 3 Oblits back to back and let me know how good your PoF window is compared to someone who manages runes/runic power/and procs properly.
Tell you right now, the one who didnât just hit Obliterate because it was up and a KM proc available will do better. Yet you donât seem to understand any of that
The post is about 2 stacking killing machine which would mean only using obliterate twice in a row at most which occurs anyway during normal gameplay with good rng. But since you dont know how to read youre talking about using 3 obliterates in a row simultaneously for some reason.
In anycase id argue if 2 of those oblits were killing machines then you likely would still have some runes left over to spend because of ME
I was a cutting edge raider and in top 40 of NA raiding i understand this class and its rotation a lot better than you do mr druid
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Or more depending on how KM procs.
And you have 0 room to talk about people not reading.
Grizzle was talking about resource management and suggested you
I mean he talks about resource management within his post and you want to talk about peoples failure to read?
How about that statement of yours. Rotationally you do not fish for KM procs using Frost Strike or Howling Blast. Thats what that section of your post actually means.
Murderous Efficiency is also a chance. I dont think you understand this class as much as you say you do, in fact I dont think you understand the spec as much as you say you do and if you were CE you were getting carried and its probably why you âwas a cutting edge raiderâ meaning in the past and you arent anymore.
Wonder why that would be. We have already seen that just because you are cutting edge it means absolutely nothing. Just ask Biceps when he was calling CE raiders bad players even though they were the ones downing bosses.
CE means zilch and you are just trying to use it as an argument from authority and its not working. Its making you look petty that you have to stoop so low.
All this stemmed from me just asking a simple question.
That is what you made a big stink over and now are insulting others when you should be looking in the mirror and feeling shame from the deepest pits of your being.
zzzzz
i feel bad for you honestly i really do
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See, you dont want to have a conversation, you want to control and people agreeing with you.
Thats why you insult others and bring up what you think is a position of power.
No one should listen to you and your suggestions, not even Blizzard.
People donât want to actually have discussions. They want echo chambers. Which is why heâs unable to grasp the concept o brought before him
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everything is going to change with the new talent trees in 10.0.
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I hope I donât lose my Obliterate Cleave.
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Good RNG does not exist within WoW lol.
With how KM procs work, the likelihood of getting one back to back on swings is minimal. So during normal game-play, you donât have to worry about stacking 2. The only time stacking 2 would be an issue is when youâre able to force a KM proc and get a KM proc naturally via auto-attack crit, and that only really becomes an issue inside PoF, which again, comes down to managing resources as I had mentioned.
And that goes back to: Burn all 6 Runes on the opening of your PoF window (mismanaging resources) and see how you compare to someone who alternates Runic Power / Runes / Procs properly and see which one does better.
Using 2 Obliterates back to back throws a wrench into everything.
Iâm confused of why youâre using âBurning all 6 runesâ as an example. Youâre not supposed to use all the runes. The best time to use Runic Power as Frost would be when you have 4 runes depleted.
Personally, I donât really care if Iâm gonna get 2 stacks of KM or not. Itâs nice to have. But I donât think this example is not really a good argument against why we shouldnât make KM as a proc less polarizing.
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same my alt is an unholy dk/frost dk.
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This is concerning PoF window and not in general as your PoF window is where things get wonky with 2 stacks of KM and proper resource management. With how KM gets proccâd youâd never have 2 in a row outside of PoF.
So burning 2 or 3 Obliterates right out of the gate in your PoF window (as one would [so they claim] if they had 2 stacks of KM) now throws everything off inside your burst window as 2 stacks of KM does not stop you from acquiring more KM procs naturally and youâd force a KM proc burning Runic Power while waiting for Runes to regenerate.
With how Frost is currently built and how KM procs work, the alternating Oblit/FS for a KM proc for every Oblit allows for proper resource management. Burning 2 Oblits and 4 runes out of the gate will screw things up as youâre not guaranteed rune regeneration for ME. So while youâre globabled, you force a KM proc and try to get a rune (and if you fail, well good luck next time), and then get a KM proc naturally from white damage, youâve got 2 stacks of KM and only enough runes to burn 1 Oblit, so now we force another KM proc with FS, back up to 2 KM stacks, and still not enough Runes to use either stack and low and behold, thanks to the nature in which KM procs (increased chance per crit and missed KM), we now lost another stack.
So does that mean we need to let KM stack indefinitely because of the issues that happen KM stacks and mismanaging resources to use said stacks?
Frosts PoF window is designed to alternate between Runes and Runic Power spenders. Yes it does feel bad gaining a proc of KM .5 seconds before you force one. But the issues do not disappear if you allow 2 stacks. It would help outside of the PoF window, but itâs very rare youâd ever get 2 back to back before you could burn one anyway, so this change doesnât really affect 75% of the gameplay. So this issue only lies within the PoF window when you can force a KM proc. In which goes back to the mismanagement of resources as Iâve outlined multiple times.
The scenario of one does not use Obliterate for stacking KM before initiating the PoF windows sounds unlikely. It is more likely for DW for this setup to occur than 2H.
But whatever, letâs go with your example and letâs say you do have 2 stacks of KM. Okay, now you can go nuts with PoF on the get go.
ME is not the only passive that gives you a rune whenever you use a KM during the PoF window. If youâre using Icecap, that would be the case. But if youâre using Obliteration, you are very likely to get at least a rune whenever you are using Obliterate to consume a KM proc during PoF window.
You also are forgetting that Frost Strike inherently can give you a rune from a coinflip (And a KM proc since itâs Obliteration weâre talking about). If it DOESNâT give you a rune, thatâs another issue entirely as RP just feels godawful to spend and it doesnât restore your runes reliably due to it being an RNG.
No. But it would make the buff a lot less polarizing and alleviates the pain of it being procced during a global. Outside of PoF window, you will not get 2 KM procs unless you active donât use Obliterate for some reason (and probably shouldnât get 2 KM procs this way).
Your bolded statement is false. PoF window is designed for Frost DK to spend as much runes as possible. There is a reason why Runes are so valued for Frost Dks in contrast to Unholy Dks. We have scaling for each rune we spend. While thatâs nice in all, it would make RP feel bad to spend since both share GCD.
Obliteration allows you to weave between Runes and FS to get more KM procs (Heck, Runes and Rime if it procs) and thatâs a better net damage increase since PoF gives you Strength based on your runes spent and how many runes you have. Plus, it gives you 30% chance to restore a rune when you consume with KM. Additive or Multiplicative to ME, the chance of you getting a rune during this window is very likely.
This doesnât eliminate the problem Chillpills described by any means. But, like I said, itâs nice to have to alleviate the problem of it being procced during a global (because if you have a KM proc, you probably shouldnât use any other ability that doesnât consume it anyway) and makes the KM as a buff a lot less polarizing.
Think of the first KM proc if that specific scenario happens as a grace period of what would otherwise be a wasted proc by a white crit afterwards.
Oh and Empowered Rune Weapon also exist. So thereâs that.
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That wasnât my example as I said it would be rather unusual to get 2 stacks of KM outside of PoF. So itâs not about entering PoF with 2 stacks (which would be ideal), but missing out on resources inside of PoF due to consuming multiple killing machines back to back.
I understand, but itâs still common that people need to use multiple FS back to back to get their rune to regenerate. Itâs unfortunate, but itâs not guaranteed to regen a rune.
And using 2 Oblits back to back (because hey! 2 KM stacks) can/will still cause this issue.
Correct. And alternating resources (which is shown to be the optimal rotation) increases the chances and odds of regenerating runes so you can continue to use runes. Using 3 Obliterates back to back and then burning runic power on FS to fish for a Rune is bad resource management, and now youâre globaled again.
Yes. But only available every other PoF window. Still doesnât fix the issue as it only helps in 10% of overall game play.
Okay, cool! Glad we established something.
The idea is to never ever reach 2 KM stacks. The 2nd KM stack is just there as a grace period of in case when you force a KM proc from Obliteration and then a white crit also proccing KM.
2H or DW, especially 2H, if this ever occurs, you will most likely not get another KM proc for a couple of auto attacks.
We also established that FS is used to force a KM proc and is a coinflip to generate a rune. Fortunately, FSâ purpose is actually better than Rime if youâre using Unleashed Frenzy conduit. Further synergizing Obliteration build, making it stronger.
If you somehow get 2 stacks of KM procs in a global, you will not get another KM proc from a white crit for a couple of swings and globals. This is the most deterministic state of Obliteration. You DO want to use 2 Obliterates back to back if this ever occurs. Also remember the passives that grants a rune for each KM consumption.
The resource starvation is not very likely than you think. This is coming from a Night Fae DK using a covenant ability that demands just as much Runes and Globals to make it work.
The idea is pretty simple. Compared to other abilities that has âstacksâ like Mind Blast in Voidform, Conflagration for Destro Locks, Fire Blast for Fire Mages, itâs a bit more nuanced. Knowing how the game works and the spec:
You do not want to reach 2 stacks of KM; You do not want to save a KM stack to fish for another one.
This feature would be a huge plus for Obliteration enthusiasts and would make it very competitive against BoS builds.
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its great youre trying to explain the thing everyone here already understood but to those 2 clowns. This is why i stopped trying its not worth the effort theyre just arguing for arguing sake
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