You are so petty, that you brought up that I liked someone’s post. So I explained why. I do not agree with their entire opinion. I agreed with a fact they stated. A fact that disproved your head canon.
Yrel and her people were mistreated by the Iron Horde. The Draenei put the past aside. They considered the Orcs noble Allies after the events of WoD.
This head canon of yours… this hatred from Yrel or the Draenei for the past events… is what goes against the actual lore.
Sure it is. Especially in this case. Perhaps you do not see the logic, or you refuse to see it.
You think it has no logic, or is illogical. I disagree. I think they spelled out the logic of it fine.
I disagree when you say it is illogical. It seems logical to me, especially with the logic in the setting.
So, you acknowledge you are a Troll that will make spam threads on the same exact topic. With no new information. And then you complain when the arguments are the same.
Well, I don’t think the Draenei saw themselves as going to war, simply trying to save the world and all those on it, including the Orcs. I do think the Orcs saw themselves going to war because from their point of view the Draenei were attempting cultural genocide, if not a physical one.
You used Casus Belli correctly. Whether that’s justified to save the world… is case by case at best. As for Geya’rah’s quotses, you’re right about them. Here are two of her quotes about the Draenei; "
“There are draenei on this world?” <Geya’rah narrows her eyes.> “Not for long.”
“The Alliance embraces the draenei and their Lightforged kin. That alone is reason to crush their cities to dust.”
She’s not even just against Lightforged anymore, she’s just started to go all genocidal bigot against the Draenei. It’s as if Geya’rah doesn’t know about the Iron Horde…
Among the MANY changes that’ve occured in the story almost decade since, Blizzard’s kiled Varian, made Anduin king, brought back Turalyon, introduced Xe’ra and the Lighforged/bound concept, shifted to a narrative exploring cosmic powers and made the Scarlet Crusade/Brotherhood/Crimson Pilgrims play more roles in Legion and dropped breadcrumbs that they’re working on overtaking the throne in Shadowlands.
And yet, Xe’ra was able to get the Draenei to go against everyone else on Draenor and even get Yrel to turn against someone she personally described as a good friend of several decades.
When Xe’ra shows up and starts doing her manipulation thing, she can get people to do things they might not. And she can be subtle or overt.
Oh undoubtedly Xe’ra is going to impliment some kind of manipulation, up to and including the whole Lightbinding thing to get him and others on her side. It’s what she does. And as her former champion with an extremely close bond, he’s going to be her best cantidate.
He’ll definitely break free. Unther and Sylvanas got their souls back. Anduin’s going to break free of his mind control. Tyrande gave up the Night Warrior power and is no longer consumed with vengeance. This is how Blizzard’s storytelling has been working for a while now.
He expressed no defiance until Xe’ra was long gone, which is a questionable definition of “defiance”, but sure.
It’s not that I’m ignoring his personal character devlopment. I jut know Blizzard doesn’t base it’s writing on characters doing things that are natural extensions of their characterization. It introduces mcguffins and external motivators to get characters to do stuff. And being an external mcguffin/motivator that controls people is Xe’ra’s whole schtick.
What does that have to do with Turalyon? This is completely irrelevant.
She can be subtle with those ready to believe her, but for those who aren’t? We call them, ‘Lightbound.’
This is where I disagree. There’s only room for one golden-haired male savior in this franchise and Anduin is Golden’s special toxic-masculinity crushing boy. Turalyon has had death flags on him since BC. I fully expect he’ll die as a raid boss, Lightbound and forever lost, and that it’ll be used to push Alleria over the edge and maybe, just maybe if we’re lucky, it’ll make Arator become something more than a background cardboard cutout. I rather doubt it.
Which is why I’ll reiterate; Turalyon going Raid Boss Light Zealot needs to be the result of him being Lightbound, of having refused to accept the tyranny of the Light, and Xe’ra collecting on the Light’s claim on him. There can be no subtle manipulation, not this time. He knows what she is, he’s warned Anduin against her tactics, he’s not going to fall for them himself.
I don’t think the Alliance- like the Night Elves, and Gnomes, etc- like the Scarlets.
I think the Scarlets continue popping up and the Humans of the Alliance continue to tolerate them to a degree because the Scarlets all about destroying the Forsaken and retaking Lordaeron and those things are popular among a not-so-inconsiderable number of Humans in the Alliance. Their calls to remove Anduin are also popular with the nobility, because they don’t particularly like Anduin and are being written as your usual corrupt nobles that’re less bound by scruples than he is. They’re spreading exactly this kind of propaganda in game right now.
And also because Blizzard wants to keep having some Light users that aren’t so nice, but rather than actually explore systemic elements in the faith or church that could lead to this kind o stuff, it’s just easier to put it on a group of NPCs wearing easily identifiable tabards. And they could create a new group to supplant the Scarlets, but they don’t want to go through the work if the result is basically going to be Scarlets in all but name.
Lightbinding as a form of mind control is only unproven fanon at this point. Even if you are completely right about Yrel, Turalyon is not Yrel. Name one character Xe’ra is verified to have actually mind-controlled to take an action against their will in canon, including the official lore outside the game.
Why are you making the false claim that Turalyon never defied Xe’ra until after her her death when he clearly and politely defies Xe’ra more than once in the short story “A Thousand Years of War”?
Is there any examples of this you could cite? An outdated quest NPC sitting in the basement of the Cathedral doesn’t not quite support the reach you’re going for, just in my opinion.
Can you cite examples of this? Last I checked, Stormwind loved Anduin and the Wrynn dynasty as a whole. There had been corrupt nobles in the past, certainly, but I can’t remember the last time the House of Nobles got mentioned in any meaningful way.
These were your two statements that do not fit with lore :
There is no soreness to acknowledge. You want to inject a plot point of soreness.
Your use of the word “logical” is pretty liberal. It wouldn’t be very logical after Yrel said they were friends in the aftermath of WoD.
That may have been logical before BfA and the Maghar recruitment scenario. But the pamphlet we find, and Yrel herself, show that the opposite happened. She even calls Grom a good friend.
Xe’ra’s being involved makes it relevant. When she chooses her champion, she controls them either subtly and if need be, by force. She did it to Turalyon. She did it to Yrel. She tired to do it to Illidan. She’s the common denominator.
Indeed. That’s why I’ve repeatedly brought this up as a very likely plot point.
So if you think Anduin already has the spot of pure haired Light champion that’s going to defy Xe’ra and you think Turalyon’s already been marked for death, why exactly are you acting like everything I’m saying is so unlikely?
But honestly, how many big name Alliance characters has Blizzard killed lately? Everyone swore up and down that Jaina and Tyrande were on the chopping block. Who honestly thinks Blizzard is going to off Anduin by the end of Shadowlands?
I 100% agree. That’s why I think Blizzard is going to have Xe’ra show up and- using her manipulation skills, up to and including Lightbinding- create a more zealotous faction within the Alliance, with Tuyralyon as its head. Turalyon she’ll have to apply the screws to more intensely, but a good chunk of people will likely be going along because a giant Narru shows up and tasks them with a crusade to save the world from the unpure or whatever.
When it comes to logic… “You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.” Why are you ignoring the quotes of in-game characters? You project, strawman, move the goalposts, use Ad Hominem attacks, double standards and mental gymnastics.
Oh I don’t think its unlikely. I just disagree with anyone who seems to think Turalyon is going to willingly go Light Zealot, or even be manipulated/influenced into it. His characterization, his growth, indicates he’s going to fight it like hell, and the death flags on him indicate he is going to lose. Anduin will succeed where Turalyon fails just to prop him up even further, because if the writers and devs of this game have anything in common, it’s a habitual incapability to not repeat the same mistakes that their playerbase has hated, over and over. Turalyon will be sacrificed on the Altar of making the new High King look good.
Oh certainly. The minute she’s got Turalyon as her puppet I imagine the bulk of the Alliance will gladly fall in line. There will be some holdouts, of course, but not many, and not very vocal at first. It’ll be the usual faction conflict expansion except this time the Alliance will be the ones splintering from within.
Two questions. If what you said is true; What do you think AU Xe’ra’s endgame is? Why do you think it’s bad?
Even the most likely outcome there, a forcefully Light-dominated universe, is less bad/evil than remaking reality to serve a tyrant where no action is taken unless he wills it (Zovaal the Jailer) destroy the current universe and kill everyone in it (Sargeras) and destroy everything including the universe until there is only Void (the Old Gods and Void Lords).
And you can use what ever debate team jargon you wish to insult me. That does not change the fact :
You are flat out wrong. Your bunk head canon theory crafting flies in the face of lore. The Draenei and Yrel in particular were not “sore” about WoD. They were getting along. She even called Grom a friend.
These statements of yours are evidence of your faulty understanding of the lore :
Those fly in the face of lore.
You can insult me how ever you wish. But you will continue to be wrong while you construct your head canon house of cards on a mistaken foundation.
I forgot to put cherry-picking on the list of logical fallacies you regularly try to use against me and my arguments, Cursewords. Thanks for reminding me. Ironic, since the writers have a similar disregard for history to yours given all the retcons to WoW’s lore; you’re birds of a feather.
Well not only are there the outdated NPCs, but even after the conflict between the Argents and Scarlets in Legion, you still have Crimson Pilgrims walking around in Dalaran.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Crimson_Pilgrim
In Shadowlands, we have the following letters being passed around…
The Scarlet Crusade is still raising funds and planning a comeback. They aren’t gone. They’re, at best, a fringe group at the moment. But that’s also because they don’t have a naruu like Xe’ra showing up and backing them and using her powers to trick/compel others into following as well.
Also keeping in mind that Anduin left Turalyon as commander of the Alliance’s MILITARY, but it was the house of nobles that decided promote him to regeant on the throne.
And this is pretty much all the latest anyone’s said on the nobles of Stormwind, as Blizzard hasn’t been focusing much on them, or politics in general lately.
Again, honestly, how many big name Alliance characters has Blizzard killed lately? Everyone swore up and down that Jaina and Tyrande were on the chopping block. Who honestly thinks Blizzard is going to off Anduin by the end of Shadowlands?
What’s more likely is the story that Blizzard gave us with Sylvanas and Tyrande and Saurfang: one where they all got tricked or magically compelled, resulting in them acting rather out of character and being temporary antagonists (or skirting the line), only for them to get a good talking to from Anduin and eventually break free from their fetters.
Although my money’s more on a big melodramatic cutscene where Xe’ra eventually asks him to do something like execute Aleria or something, and the conflict it causes within him is when he manages to break free thanks to the power of love.
You’ll probably keep ignoring me, but it’s worth discussing anyway. The last of the Scarlet Crusade was wiped out in “Legion” by the Death Knights of the Ebon Blade. It’s during the new Four Horsemen quest chain when they go to resurrect Whitemane as one of the Horsemen. (I can’t post links, so check it out on wowhead or wowpedia).
Those brochures are being handed out by the Scarlet Brotherhood; a small group of Scarlet Crusade fans/conspiracy theorists.
Also, the nobles approving of Turalyon becoming regent doesn’t mean they want to get rid of Anduin. This also raises a question; why do the Scarlet Brotherhood want Genn on the throne instead of Turalyon? Genn doesn’t worship the Light and he’s a worgen, two things the Scarlet Brotherhood hates… and they never say anything about Turalyon.
I’d also hate to see yet another “X character did evil because outside forces manipulated them” story.