A better expansion idea than “Light Crusade”

[Micâh-moon-guard]

If its the one your thinking of. Than yes.

[Micâh-moon-guard]

True. For supposedly powerful beings they are surprisingly fragil

[Denona-khazgoroth (Denona)]

lol

We even predicted that it would get nuked. Ah blizzard is so predictable.

[Renautus-arathor]

Oh no we are talking about forum action. This thread better not get nuked…

… it would be so sad to lose a Thadeus troll thread.

[Doness-kargath (Doness)]

Apparently, switching to alts and flagging posts isn’t allowed, even if the flag is justified. I got a 30-day ban for that, shortly before the lawsuit, so I missed most of the drama.

[Micâh-moon-guard]

Gonna make me wanna nuke this thread

[Renautus-arathor]

I’ve done that as a newbie.

[Renautus-arathor]

The naaru should be less benevolent you are totally right.

[Micâh-moon-guard]

I just imagine there has to be some pretty intolerant naaru out there, you know? They ALL can’t be goody goody.

[Renautus-arathor]

They also fight to the death as we saw in lore. Ka’ra almost killed the Naaru under Ogushun, I don’t know his name offhand. I would like to see more Light vs Void Naaru battles.

[Doness-kargath (Doness)]

@Renautus-arathor

Ka’ra almost killed the Naaru under Ogushun

K’ara fought D’ore and K’ure, after his corruption.

[Micâh-moon-guard]

Point is, it would be nice to see more of that.

[Thadeus-caelestrasz]

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

I don’t oppose black and white morality in stories. I don’t think it’s superior writing, but I don’t oppose it. And I definitely don’t make multiple threads where I make bad arguments about how much I hate such stories and how the only people who enjoy them are bad/wrong. And I don’t argue that others disagree because they personally dislike me, while taking passive aggressive jabs.

The fact remains that this “Yrel’s Holy Terror” plot relies on fewer retcons and bad writing than the story that brought Yrel, the drfaenei, and the nauru into existence in the first place. In this instance, retcons and better writing actually justify her existence as a character, illuminate on her aforementioned “dark secret”, and work to further explore the established concept of the Light as not always being good.

You don’t oppose black and white morality in stories? Could’ve fooled me given how often you criticize it. I don’t oppose morally grey morality in stories, I just think it’s overused and – in this instance – poorly done. I don’t do passive aggressive jabs – as you just did, I voice suspicions or make accusations.

I shouldn’t have said “everyone” who enjoys those stories is bad and wrong. I meant that a significant amount of people who write or support those stories tend to be a certain type… but as you said, not all.

While I see where you’re coming from relating to Yrel’s “dark secret”, there’s no connection between turning fanatical and having a dark secret. I thought the dark secret would be something like she collaborated with the Iron Horde before being thrown into their mines, being AU Garona’s mother or related to Kil’jaeden or Archimonde.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

I never changed track. I always gave Turalyon a possible out. Because that’s what Blizzard does. And why I argue that it makes more sense to have both Turalyon and Yrel be pawns of Xe’ra.

You’re the one who insists that Turalyuon and Yrel be villain and/or commit terrible acts and join Xe’ra in being a villain all on their own accord.

You changed track on how Turalyon could be a villain and refuse to let go of the idea of him being a villain. I’ve argued against it and said ‘if it has to be done, it should be done a certain way’.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

Humans, dwarves, and gnomes meet the exact same standards that you set forth for the Nerubians in defining them as a “void entity”. Logic you also applied to Nerubians spawned in a Titan facility. I’m going by your logic.

But there is a difference between how humans dwarfs and gnomes were made and how the aqir were made, including the Void memories of Nerubians spawned in Uldir. The aqir aren’t pre-existing beings mutated.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

I don’t even respond to half your threads on this topic. You accused me of ignoring you before. I saw the potential for Xe’ra being an antagonist before you even appeared on the forums and started making multiple threads arguing against it. You’re also in other threads having similar arguments with other people and making bad arguments there too.

How many threads on this topic have I made? It’s not even ten and that’s not even half of the threads I’ve made.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

Because faith is synonymous conviction. I used the term because it was correct. Why did you spend so much time arguing against it?

Because the Light’s relationship with conviction isn’t 1-for-1 as you claim.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

I am not. There is no substantive difference between the Onslaught and any of the other Scarlet groups. You’re desperate to try and argue all these Scarlets are so substantively different even when they have pretty much the same overarching goals and beliefs and even wear the exact same uniforms.

No substantive difference… except for abandoning the Scarlet Crusade’s ultimate goal of reclaiming Lorderaen and several points of contention. The fact that you say that after I posted an official renunciation from the Scarlet Onslaught’s founder shows how desperate you are.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

You were not only unable to count the correct number- after me citing the post you requested. You tried to dismiss it by claiming you suspect they personally dislike you.

Stop blaming other people for your own bad arguments.

You’re leaving out the part where I stated the “personal dislike” only applied to a select minority of those people… who I specifically name-dropped.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

I had to explain to you what the political ramifications are because you demanded evidence in protest of my claim. As if you didn’t know it was true. Why would you demand citation for facts you already know to be true?

You didn’t have to explain it, you chose to explain it. I demanded citation for facts I know to make you re-examine your own argument.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

The Scarlets’s larger ideology isn’t wiped out, though. And the Crusade is unlikely to be wiped out, as it has a tendency to keep coming back expansion after expansion alongside other Scarlets.

Also, it does make sense and is not at all unheard of for a co-ed organization to use “brotherhood” int he title. It’s an example of how many male nouns can be used in the gender neutral sense; like how “mankind” is often used to describe humanity in general and not just men. Or the very common occurrence wherein a non-male military officer is addressed as “Sir”.

Again the Scarlet Crusade didn’t come back expansion after expansion, their numbers dwindled from members dying or leaving until the Scarlet Crusade was wiped out in Legion.

While I get what you’re saying about how organizations called Brotherhoods work, I still think it’s strange.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

And Xe’ra made that assumption and dismissed other possibilities because of the tendency of the Light to seek one path and shuns all others as lies. She just picked the wrong path.

It is “nuanced” to try and give the naaru “their own distinct personalities and goals” when the villain-batting is applied in a nuanced way that maintains that naruu have their own distinct personalities and goals. Xe’ra is not the only nauru in existence. There are plenty of non-villainous narruu that aren’t villain-batted. And what makes Xe’ra rather interesting is that she’s not a wolf in sheep’s clothing: she’s actually an example of the fact that not all sheep are benign- which is very much not a cliche.

Having all sheep be universally benign and all wolves be universally malicious (or at most occasionally not terrible) would be the cliche.

Actually, having a benevolent group have non-benevolent members is also a cliché – the “Token Evil Teammate”, “Evil Hero” and “Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing” tropes.

Nuance would be giving Xe’ra and Yrel a justified reason for being what they are, having justifiable motives or having them make accurate assessments of the heroes.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

I wasn’t aware that Twilight was about the Light not being all good, since you’re referencing them in regards to the Light isn’t all perfect isn’t unpopular. If anything, quite the opposite, as Twilight is famous for taking the edge off Vampires and presenting us with an otherwise pretty tame romance free of much complexity.

Also, if there’s no relationship between what’s good/bad and what’s popular/unpopular, why did you starte this argument by trying to argue against a Light Crusade expansion on the grounds that it’ll be unpopular?

Of course you’re allowed to just say, “I don’t personally like it.” But you don’t do that. You make repeated threads trying to argue against the idea based on lore. Based on precedent. Based on what constitutes “good” writing. Based on what’s popular and unpopular. Based on how you think the alternative is exclusively the domain of people who have the mindset of edgy teenagers. Based on how you think everyone who disagrees with you is conspiring against you. And the arguments you make on those grounds are indeed bad arguments.

That snark of yours was poorly done. It’s clear I was using the Twilight novels as an example of how popular doesn’t equal good.

I only said a minority of people were conspiring against me and you know it.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

The quest chain that first mentions Xe’ra is the same quest chain that sees us reviving her, getting Illidan for her, and her trying to forcibly Lightforge him. As I said, Xe’ra was introduced as being untrustworthy and willing to forcibly Lightforge people against their will in her very first questline.

And that bad thing she did resulted in her death because she never stopped/tried anything else. Even when asked to stop.

Actually it’s not. The quest chain where we revive Illidan – called “In the House of Light and Shadow” ended with the Nighthold in patch 7.1, not on Argus in Patch 7.3. The last quest is to bring Light’s Heart to Khadgar in Dalaran, which leads to Khadgar bring’s Light’s Heart to the Nighthold so Illidan’s soul can be restored to his body. This quest is called “The Nighthold”.

The closest thing to a hint that Xe’ra would Lightforge Illidan by force is when we’re on Argus rescuing Xe’ra and Alleria complains to Turalyon about being imprisoned by Xe’ra for using the Void. Pretty clumsy foreshadowing. This takes place an entire patch after the quest chain “In the House of Light and Shadow” from 7.1, with patch 7.2 between them.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

But what I’m telling you is what I think Blizzard’s output will be.

Of course Xe’ra with Turalyon in tow won’t succeed in wiping out the Forsaken.

I also acknowledge Blizzard has a history of contradicting themselves and ignoring continuity errors and ignore character progression. But they do it anyway. It’s how we got the Light in the first place. If you’re that concerned about it, understand that not doing a Light Crsuade expansion would indeed contradict and ignore continuity and character progression that they’ve already laid down as well.

And they’ve ignored character progression with making Yrel a baddie. Two wrongs don’t make a right, they never should’ve done it this way in the first place.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

If you already knew, you wouldn’t have asked all those questions that could have been easily looked up on Wikipedia and revealed that ISIS is very much an extant threat to hundreds of thousands/millions of people that multiple world governments are still working to actively suppress.

And they wouldn’t have nearly the assets the Scarlets would.

And as already pointed out, the Scarlets are perfectly willing to work with non-humans for their long term goals. And Xe’ra is perfectly capable of not telling people what her own goals, even as she reads peoples minds and gives them visions in order to direct them in pursuit of her own.

I asked you to get information to make your re-examine your argument. To compare the Scarlet Onslaught to ISIS, they’re villains that could be wiped out in a single raid or patch at most. Also Illidan could one-shot Xe’ra but he apparently couldn’t one-shot Kil’jaeden. So that’s hardly a cosmic threat.

[quote=“Tammy-wyrmrest-accord, post:378, topic:1100665”]

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

Things don’t have to be equally powerful to exist in a state of balance or maintain a state of balance. You said you understand the concept of Yin and Yang and how it relates to the Light. You should know this.

How can two forces actively opposing each other keep a balance if one is more powerful?

Unless their power waxes and wanes or a greater power keeps both in check, it doesn’t make sense for two forces to be kept in balance when one is more powerful.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

Before I tell you what critically and commercially acclaimed MMO I’m talking about, I want you to admit you don’t actually know what I’m talking about… You have a bad habit of asking for proof of something, acting surprised to learn it, then acting like you knew it the whole time. It’s very disingenuous.

You misunderstand me. And I don’t know what MMO you’re talking about. If I had to guess, I’d say Final Fantasy but I’m not sure.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

The things you claim Blizzard to have forgotten are only things you have incomplete knowledge or a warped understanding of. You incorrectly thought the Titan pantheon personally made and used the reoriginator engine, for example.

And despite having had previous instances of villainous priests and paladins, Blizzard hasn’t painted all priests and paladins as universally bad, you know.

For a start, why wasn’t the Iron Horde mentioned in the Mag’har scenario since we meet AU Grom? Why didn’t Yrel bring them up or mention her dead sister?

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

And the retcon ship will continue to sail. The drink has been spilled and can’t be put back into the bottle. Your problem isn’t retcons and bad writing. You just have a thing about the Light in general and Xe’ra, Yrel and Turalyon in particular.

The thing with these characters and the Light in general is predominantly due to the retcons and poor writing they’ve been subjected to.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

And yet the Horde and Alliance keep teaming up. Also, the Night Elves recruited Demon Hunters in WCIII after having locked them up in the first place. Then they were banished from the Night Elves in WCIII. Then we fought them in Outland in BC. Then they were imprisoned again before we worked alongside them again in Legion.

And, my assessment is quite accurate. Every time you contradict yourself or struggle to defend an argument rather than admit when you’re wrong. And you’ll prove me right again when we see you post another thread on this very same topic some time in the near future.

Your assessments of me have been far less accurate. I’m not obsessed with getting the last word in. I don’t make multiple threads on the same topic. You even wrongfully suspected me of intentionally not responding to you at the beginning of the thread! You’re the one who even brought up the idea about people needing to get the last word in by admitting that you have the problem with it and you wrongfully suspected I do. Just how you wrongfully suspected me and Cursewords being the same person.

Just like you just wrongfully suspected that I think you’re an idiot. Just like now you’re taking umbrage at the idea of being called a liar, when I never called you one.

Stop blaming other people for your bad arguments.

And yet they keep going to war with each other. The Demon Hunters weren’t released from being locked up in Warcraft III, that was just Illidan. Other Demon Hunters went around doing their own thing and working with the Night Elves, being held at arm’s length or shunned.

Your assessment of me is wrong. Funny how Akilyss noted similar traits in you, and I agree; given how much I’ve butted heads with Akilyss that’s saying something.

There’s a difference between expressing suspicions and making accusations. Also, when did I accuse you of making multiple threads on the same topic?

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

Yeah, killing loads of Ogres following the end of the Gorrean Empire definitely involved genocide to get there. What, are we going to act like it’s strange to have have a story thread wherein Orc characters are described as engaging in genocidal acts?

My situation with Yrel does add nuance, as it turns her from being the big bad archvillain bound by their immortal nature -who commits warcrimes- and turns her into a mortal being manipulated by forces more powerful than her and possibly worthy of being rescued- who commits warcrimes.

The naruu aren’t a hivemind. They’re individuals. Xe’ra is not representative or responsible for the views and goals of every single naruu.

And who killed those Ogres? It was the Mag’har, not the Draenei. That’s why the Ogres are in ghettos.

Nuance would be giving Xe’ra/villainous naaru and Yrel at least one justified reason for being what they are, having justifiable motives or having them make accurate assessments of the heroes.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

Again, brainwashing and manipulation doesn’t mean people are being puppeted around on strings or become drones. We do see Xe’ra peering into Turalyon’s mind. And our mind. We see her giving Turalyon and us visions. And we see her using that to have us to try and help her accomplish her goals, as she hides what they are from us. We see her trying to forcibly Lightforge Illidan, which he denies in he doesn’t want to lose who he is as a person.

• What traits of brainwashing did they show?
• Again, do we see any Mag’har getting Lightforged?
• Did the other Lightforged Draenei – who’ve served Xe’ra far longer than Turalyon has, join Turalyon’s attack on Illidan when he killed her?

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

It’s not stupid to not mention the iron Horde because they’ve been gone for 30 years. And their former leader quit. People don’t continuously talk about organizations that lasted a couple years and were disbanded 30 years ago. And the people who weren’t even alive when those organizations died talk about them even less.

MU Draka showed her distaste for MU Grom was exiled from the old Horde while it was up to all the terrible stuff it was doing. She died resisting them. And AU Draka fought Grom in AU Draenor until he himself left and started fighting against the Iron Horde and the Legion.

I’ve not only watched, but understood enough of WoD, BfA and beyond to actually know their lore so I don’t end up making smug and inaccurate claims that stuff’s being accidentally left out- as you just did.

It is stupid when the Iron Horde’s former leader is walking around alive and unpunished and no mention is made of the past crimes or why he was let off. Especially since Draka lost her brothers-in-law Ga’nar and Fenris to the Iron Horde.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

Before I cite this example, I want you to confirm that you don’t know about it first. Because you have a tendency to ask for evidence of things to prove they exist, only to later claim you knew about it already rather than admit you were wrong.

After consideration, I suspect the Orcish phrase was the name for the AU version of Mak’gora. My point about cultural genocide still stands having seen what happened to the Pandaren.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

At the point in the story when Illidan destroys Xe’ra, he is quite literally being selected by her as her chosen one who will lead her forces to victory. He was the leader of the elite group that was literally named after him. He was a member of the minority leading a majority being selected to be an even smaller minority leading an even bigger majority.

I don’t think Blizzard bases too much on what they think will be applauded by the fanbase these days. Unless you’re arguing current WoW is super popular. But wait, you’re also arguing that actual quality is divorced from what’s popular/unpopular.

Pick an argument.

If anyone’s projecting their hatred onto others, it’s you projecting all this hatred onto Illidan and anything you deem “edgy” onto the larger WoW audience.

Not all Illidan fans are edgelords, but some are. Same with the writers; that Illidan kill’s Xe’ra cinematic was a big pile of edgelord cringe. And I was talking about what’s popular with the fanbase, not popular in general with society.

I play Death Knights. Death Knights are edgy, but I try to moderate or stay away from the edgy aspects when roleplaying one. I think Darion Mograine walks a fine line between edgy and edgelord, I hope he doesn’t go over it.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

You’re allowed to just say, “I don’t personally like it.” But you don’t do that. You make repeated threads trying to argue against the idea based on lore. Based on precedent. Based on what constitutes “good” writing. Based on what’s popular and unpopular. And the arguments you make on those grounds are indeed bad arguments.

I already explained how such a story would hardly be one-sided, as characters like Velen and Anduin- big Light reps and examples of the Man- would oppose Xe’ra. We agree that they’re not going to let characters like Alonsus and Calia aren’t going to die, and they’ll likely oppose her. Because Blizzard has stated that not all nauru are identical and they have different goals, we have lots of good nauru to oppose her.

People wouldn’t have swallowed Xe’ra’s story intended to undermine the Naaru’s good image much as they have if it didn’t involve her targeting established characters like Illidan and Alleria.

Also, too many people don’t want to deal with the kind of intellectual and emotional challenge that a well executed redemption story presents (part of why “Illidan, Champion of the Light” got as much hate as it did).

We want the short term high provided by vindictive anger that assures us of our own correctness at the expense of our perceived enemies (in this case, the writers have put Xe’ra and Yrel in that position and might do the same to Turalyon). This also raises another problem. So far the only “villainous” Naaru are the AU Light Mother and some unnamed “Radiant Naaru”. That means Blizzard is either going to have to villain-bat existing Naaru or insert new villainous Naaru into the story… like how the Jailer was inserted into the story.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

He thought she was dead before. And then she came back. And how o you suppose he lost trust and respect for her if, by your own arguments, Xe’ra didn’t actually ever do anything wrong and not even we the audience -with a birds eye view of the story- are ever given a good reason not to distrust her?

Turalyon didn’t think she was dead, he knows she is dead because he personally witnessed her get killed. To focus on Turalyon, he lost trust and respect for Xe’ra because he disagreed with her.

@Tammy-wyrmrest-accord

What does a Light Crusade expansion holds the potential for…
*A chance to give the Light some complexity and shades compared to the other Cosmic forces. Similar, a chance to give the other cosmic forces some more shades and a more complex relationship with the light. Because some people don’t obsess so much at the idea of things bnot being not black and white that they repeatedly devote multiple threads to their desperate attempts to disparage alternatives. Some people actually want to try and treat the Cosmic powers in WoW with consistency.

• It’d also gives us an exploration into how the Light manifests across multiple cultures and in different individuals in ways that’ve never been explored in depth. Just as the Light we have now is in many ways different from how it was first introduced in WCIII.
  *Seeing as not all the races of the Alliance are so fervrent in their following of the Light or as obsessed about Lordaeron humans are, this can be a potential point of friction between the various Alliance states.
  *It actually addresses the politics of the Lordaeron ownership/succession conflict and brings it center stage, with the possibility of a definite conclusion. That wraps up a lot of characters’ still unresolved threads.
  *It can help us learn more about characters like Turalyon and Yrel, who were hastily re-inserted into the story via lazy retcons and could use some proper characterization and relationships. Same for the Stormwind House of Nobles, which have been in the story for a while, but never gotten to be central to the plot.
  *It prevents the exacerbation of retcons because they can continue with what they’ve already done with Xe’ra and Yrel or go against their already stated intent to explore the concept of the Light not being universally good. And they don’t have to go back and change their motivations.
  *And yeah, it’d be a chance to deliver another “dogmatism is bad message”. based on recent events, I don’t think it’s a lesson that’s quite sunk in yet.

And it can do all of the above at the same time.

Your personal aversion to gray morality doesn’t make it bad or “good vs evil” stories better. Most “good vs evil” works these days tend to be the result of people who want to make black and white characters and subject matter and lack the maturity/experience/focus/fairness//empathy/knowledge necessary to actually explore the complexities of reality or the human experience. That, or thy’re writing a propaganda-wrapped power fantasy. Indeed, more often than not, propaganda-wrapped power fantasy tends towards black and white depictions of morality.

If one considers not being blindly loyal to authority, resistance to authority, moral complexity and the ambiguities of the universe as ideas purely in the realm of edgy teenage angst, then they’re probably looking at things from the point of view of a stereotypical younger child: one who still unquestioningly believes whatever they’re told by authority figures, and thinks the human experience or universe can be easily digested in the form of simplistic dichotomies or simple truths. They often find teenagers and adults weird and sometimes even gross. While it’s okay to let children enjoy being children and live in that blissful ignorance, eventually, we adults have to start stoking their curiosity, expand their experiences and help them grow beyond that. Grow as people.

Because World of Warcraft is rated T for teen. It’s meant for audiences of teenagers and older. It’s not for little children.

Those ideas you suggested have merit and a few problems;

• How it does look that the Light’s only getting fleshed when in an antagonistic role?
• I don’t there’ll be as much of a clash of cultures or faiths. Lorderaen was the most pious of human kingdoms. If anything, the human kingdoms now seem somewhat lukewarm about the Light, and worshipping the Light doesn’t have that many rules even for the Draenei.
• We don’t need Light fanaticism stories to explore Lorderaen politics or put Stormwind’s nobles front and centre. The ones who have been named don’t seem to be very pious.
• Preventing the exacerbation of retcons is fine.
• Just repeating a message doesn’t make it sink it. If anything it can people even more determined to resist it, especially a “T for teen” crowd.

Remember when I said thoughtful critique of religion in fiction is rare and that it’s usually one extreme or the other. Can you name a fictional story with a thoughtful critique of religion that wasn’t proselytizing for it or demonization against it?

There needs to be a balance when discussing authority, and too many stories these days go to the “don’t trust authority” extreme. Humans are not infallible as authority figures, yet there are good reasons for rules and authority to exist. Ambiguities of the universe in WoW aren’t the same as the ones in real-life so that analogy doesn’t apply.

Just because there is ambiguity in real-life doesn’t mean there are no black-or-white-type dichotomies or simple truths either.

When it comes to resistance to authority, there needs to be good reasons for that resistance. Teenagers usually lack the life experience to discern when or which rules don’t apply. While teenagers need to grow, there also needs to be reminder that there’s usually good reason for rules. People are quick to ridicule authority, especially these days… until someone does something against them. Then suddenly they’re all for rules or even the authority they were formerly ridiculing and rebelling against.

Human nature is inherently selfish and people can come up with sophistry to justify why they’re breaking a rule or defying an authority when the actual reason is greedy, petty or hedonistic (in short evil or selfish).

And that’s the part of human nature that’s often being encouraged without checks or balances these days because people are getting increasingly self-centered. They want to be told they’re fine as they are not matter what they’re like… and how dare anyone present high moral standards, because that means they can do better which means they’re not fine as they are. That sort of mindset - as encouraged by these contrarian stories - stunts growth, not helps it.

[Denona-khazgoroth (Denona)]

at this point I am wondering if Tammy and Thadeus are the same person using two different battle.net accounts.

[Renautus-arathor]

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

a significant amount of people who write or support those stories tend to be a certain type…

This feels… discriminatory.

[Renautus-arathor]

It’s hard to read thier replies to one another because they both write essays as replies.

If they could stop quoting eachother’s essays that would be nice.

[Denona-khazgoroth (Denona)]

Side note: I got lied to again. The thread involved in my issue with blizzard is still active, not deleted at all.

[Thadeus-caelestrasz]

No, we’re two different people.

[Micâh-moon-guard]

It is? Well…is it a lie if I didn’t notice it still up?

[Denona-khazgoroth (Denona)]

I think they are confusing post for thread. Either that or they just want me to stop submitting tickets. Which I will once I get an actual answer.