Yes, but left-wing ideologues are the ones getting the most use out of it, especially within the last 2 decades.
right…
I mean how many bogus stories did the Trump cult have to say that the election was stolen? Swapping from election fraud to voter fraud and visa versa whenever they lost the argument from either one.
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I said it came from both sides.
Also, you first commented on this about misinformation regarding abortion. Please don’t try to derail this thread into left vs right politics.
lol, accuses me of derailing a thread with an “unrelated” topic that YOU started.
Okay okay
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I didn’t start a conversation with you on this thread or the other one.
So it is only derailing when I enter the thread. But if someone else starts to derail it, it is all fine.
Good to know.
Micah did too, but he stopped much earlier.
Really need to stop your obsession with me, Aki and Denona and move on dude
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I’m not the one making the same thread trying poorly to argue against the lore and stuff that the developers have clearly been working towards. That’s you.
And like I said, all WoW expansions have retcons and bad writing. The existence of the Church of the Light is a retcon. The existence of the nauru is a retcon. The existence of the draenei is a retcon. The existence of Yrel at all is a retcon. Turalyon having spent the past centuries leading the Lightforged is a retcon. And making the Light the singular force in the cosmos with no moral nuance while everything else gets to have it is bad writing.
It’s not that you dislike retcons and bad writing. You just have this weird thing about the Light in general and Xe’ra and Yrel and Turalyon in particular.
I argued that there’s plenty of room narratively for him to initially follow Xe’ra should she show up in a Light Crusade expansion. And even point out how Blizzard often writes outs for these characters and how it could likely go down.
You’re the one who seems to think that people who don’t hate a Light Crusade expansion must hate all these other characters. Or making accusations that people who disagree with you hating it just don’t like you or think you’re an idiot.
No possibility about it. I showed it to you in writing. You just don’t like it and, like you said, just refuse to change your mind. Which is why eventually we’ll see another one of these threads where you make the same arguments all over again.
I am correct. You just don’t like it and, like you said, just refuse to change your mind. Which is why eventually we’ll see another one of these threads where you make the same arguments all over again.
You’re also wrong about the Light not feeding on conviction. You tried to argue that the Light isn’t related to conviction, and that it’s all about “willpower” and “faith”, as if those aren’t common synonyms of conviction or that a dictionary definition of faith doesn’t include something that is believed especially with strong conviction. And you didn’t know that antipathy is not the opposite of conviction.
It’s clear you just didn’t know what the word “conviction” meant and don’t want to admit it.
The Onslaught does pretty much support all the same stuff as the original Crusade and the other Scarlet groups, but just accepts Undead as a tool to fight other Undead. They had the time to change tabards at the least while they were sailing all their troops and equipment and setting up shop in Northrend to fight.
Here’s a direct quote from you.
You never specify which people dislike you and say you hold their motives in question. You never distinguish which people dislike you and never use either “all” or “most” to differentiate any. You’re trying to blame people not agreeing on people somehow having something personal against you. The truth is that you’e just wrong.
Stop blaming other people for your bad arguments.
You needed a citation to learn that his act had political ramifications. I’d hope you knew about Martin Luther and his theses, as that’s like one the most basic and widely known elements of it the reformation. That is like Middle school and Junior high history material.
Just admit you didn’t know about the political aspects.
Both the Onslaught and Crusade used Shadow priests though.
The founder said the Crusade is no more because they made an incorrect claim. They aren’t the first/only person in game (or outside of it) to declare the end of the Scarlet Crusade and be wrong about it.
Brotherhood means the same thing in my world as it does in the real world. In this instance: an association, society, or community of people linked by a common interest, religion, or trade. WoW uses it the same way, as the Thorium Brotherhood and Defias Brotherhood also do not exclude women in their ranks, and the Defias Brotherhood is even led by a woman.
You keep contradicting yourself, not due to any tricks or traps on my part, but because you have an inconsistent and incomplete understanding of the lore. It’s not my fault that you suddenly making sense also means you happen to agree with what I say.
I don’t assume the worst about the nauru. I just see what Xe’ra is up to because of what she’s consistently done across realities and because the developers have flat out stated her greater goals are not good for the people of Azeroth. She doesn’t even ask Illidan if he wants to be Lightforged before she starts doing it to him, so how it can’t be a change in plans when she never tried anything else.
A lesson about extremism in WoW would be a lot less cliche than another instance where a bunch of the Light characters are all good guys that we help fight against something dark and/or spooky.
Speaking of hating characters, you’re the one who can’t even mention Illidan without name calling him. I mean I’m not a fan of Illidan either, but I’m not that petty over some fictional character.
Because the way it’s been done lately isn’t actually given the full attention that being a central story would allow. And the idea that the Light isn’t all perfect isn’t unpopular. It’s a very popular idea. It’s one of the more popular ideas for an upcoming expansion. You just don’t like it.
Xe’ra was introduced as being untrustworthy and willing to forcibly Lightforge people against their will in her very first questline. Yrel likely suffered from the massive content cuts that WoD experienced, but was already described as having “a dark secret” even then.
We just saw all the Paladin Orders of the Grand Alliance stand down from continuing their war against the Forsaken when Anduin told them to. But I’m glad we at least agree that while the various Scarlet groups have had their numbers depleted, and have risen from such a state multiple times, they aren’t “wiped out”.
You would not be more at ease if I were writing the story. You’ve been stubbornly trying to argue against every hypothetical story point I’ve proposed.
And I’m basing how I think things would play out on Blizzard’s writing history. And on the lore Blizzard’s presented. The same things you yourself point out, while insisting Blizzard will suddenly stop doing them in a Light Crusade expansion.
If he wants to retake Lordaeron, he’s going to be wiping lots of Forsaken out as a matter of course. And if he’d be okay with that even without the Light enhancing his belief and convictions, then you’re just arguing to make him even more villainous. So you only care about Turalyon’s characterization so far as he’s associated with the Light?
You asked for the information because you obviously didn’t know how much of a threat ISIS was, how much a threat it still is, and incorrectly surmised that they’d be effectivelydefunct. They are not. They still present a threat to hundreds of thousands/millions of innocent people and governments across the world are still working to prevent them from gaining ground again.
The Scarlets alone, have repeatedly shown themselves to be a regional threat capable of killing enough people and taking enough territory that they require multinational military operations to take down, not unlike ISIS.
But unlike ISIS, The Scarlets’ cause has more sympathy among the general populous Stormwind, and if they have Xe’ra come down to back them up, and gain some support with Stormwind forces, and the forces of Yrel’s Lightbound army, they could be an even bigger threat.
That’s even before getting into the idea that Xe’ra’s ultimate plan is to continue beyond that with her Lightbound army, which in game dialogue and developers have already suggested is her goal.
Things don’t have to be equally powerful to exist in a state of balance or maintain a state of balance. You said you understand the concept of Yin and Yang and how it relates to the Light. You should know this.
The last time an MMO did a big expansion featuring forces of the Light got to be bad guys, people loved it. It got critical acclaim and the playerbase increased by leaps and bounds. What’s more cliche is a more simplistic black and white moral framing tied to cosmic forces.
Asking me to repeat these easily discoverable facts isn’t telling me anything new. And You’re not citing what gets forgotten by the writers.
All your questions have had answers, and none of those answers are “The Pantheon as a collective are all good/bad”. The Arcane and Titan Pantheon as a whole don’t get demonized for something individuals related to them individually do. And we often partner with them.
And if Blizzard can do it with the Titans and the Arcane, they can do it with the naruu and priests and paladins Light in a Light Crusade expansion.
And like I said, all WoW expansions have retcons and bad writing. The existence of the Church of the Light is a retcon. The existence of the nauru is a retcon. The existence of the draenei is a retcon. The existence of Yrel at all is a retcon. Turalyon having spent the past centuries leading the Lightforged is a retcon. And making the Light the singular force in the cosmos with no moral nuance while everything else gets to have it is bad writing.
Your problem isn’t retcons and bad writing. You just have a thing about the Light in general and Xe’ra, Yrel and Turalyon in particular.
I don’t think you’re an idiot. I think you’ve simply decided on an incorrect position and refuse to change your mind, which makes you uninterested in learning anything that’s actually true that might challenge it. You often play at not knowing something, thinking that no evidence exists for people to counter your preestablished beliefs, and when the evidence does come out, you double down and ignore it. And then you try to passively aggressively imply people are ignoring you, or are sock puppeting, need to get the last word in, or have something personal against. And then you abandon the thread and make a new one where you do it again.
But if you insist I treat you like I would an idiot…
Anyone who’s ever payed a modicum of attention to WoW’s story knows of examples of enemies teaming up- namely how that the Horde/Alliance often fighting, only to inevitably team up against a common foe- to the point where Thrall and Jaina point it out in universe. And that it’s hardly the only example, as 3 of the game’s 12 classes are also made up of former antagonists turned allies (Warlocks, Death Knights, and Demon Hunters). And that’s if you don’t count Shadow Priests. Or how the members of Blood Elves and Zandalarifactions were once enemies of the Horde. And the Dark Iron Dwarves and Void Elves (most of which are former Blood Elves) were once enemies of the Alliance.
But you’re not really an idiot. And you knew all that already. You’re just loathe to admitting when you’re wrong, even when it’s obvious.
My claim is right. You keep insisting the reason why Yrel should be committing genocide is because the Iron Horde -which was defeated 30 years ago- wronged her, incorrectly thinking this makes her less villainous and saves her character. You try repeatedly to discredit and villainize Mag’har that weren’t even born when the Iron Horde was around to try and make it seem less bad that Yrel wants to genocide them. And that’s when you can even bring yourself to admit that genocide is even going on, as you prefer to refer to it with euphemisms like “Convert or Die” and insist that not all the things we’ve seen happening are actually happening.
The Ma’ghar don’t deserve genocide if it’s happening? Can you even hear yourself? By the way, if you’re still trying to compare her to Daenerys, the act of burning down King’s Landing in Season 8 was an act of genocide as well. You know, just like Sylvanas burning down Teldrassil in BfA.
The Ogres joined because they too are being genocided under her “convert or die” crusade. And she already said she’s not stopping at Draenor. She’s got other planets to deal with, so obviously she’s not going to let the others go, especially not the shadow worshipping arrakoa.
Having Yrel have her faith exploited does add nuance because it makes itgives more shades to the Light and the naruu as individuals. And it actually gives Yrel a potential out, as she can ultimately blame Xe’ra for manipulating her, whereas if she did the genocide by herself… well she just did it by herself. Plus, she’s already stated that she’s doing it based on the Light visions she’s received from Xe’ra, so to change it now would be a recton.
It’s not headcanon. We’ve seen it in action. Again, like with everything else, you just don’t like it.
I blame MU Xe’ra for the bad stuff she does and AU Xe’rea for the bad stuff she does. They just happen to both do bad stuff because they’re both extremists. But yeah, the AU Xe’ra that currently exists and is the one that’s likely to show up on Azeroth has definitely done worse than MU Xe’ra.
I don’t need to tell myself that. You told us that you won’t change your mind and will keep making the same threads over and over with the same bad arguments because you refuse to be “silenced”. And you’ve been doing this same shtick so long that I can confidently predict that you’ll do it again.
She doesn’t bring up the Iron Horde because the Iron Horde hasn’t been a thing for 30 years. It’s not “omitting” things when you don’t bring up stuff from 30 years ago that don’t exist anymore and aren’t relevant to the topic at hand.
Greya’rah and several other Orcs explain how the Lightbound are converting and wiping them out and it’s shown in the Mag’har recruitment scenario. And we see the Lightbound and their converts then proceed to wage war on the Mag’har, resulting in us leaving with some survivors as the remainders make their last stand during the Mag’har recruitment scenario.
You seriously need to watch/play/read the scenario.
But we can by actually seeing the Mag’har using Orcish phrases where the Lightbound do not, and even go as far as to call their own kind and their ways savage. You just ignored it, like you ignored the fact that Lightbound Orcs don’t wear any Mag’har clothing or wield any Mag’har weapons.
Because you’re trying to downplay and deny that the Mag’har are even experiencing genocide in the first place and trying to make up excuses as to why they aren’t. And also arguing that Yrel’s reasoning for genocide should be.
But he still meets all your definitions of “The Man”. Xe’ra herself chose him as her chosen one. That you have such petty disdain for him doesn’t mean he doesn’t fit the definition you gave- unless you’re suddenly altering the definition to purposely exclude him.
And it still leaves Anduin and Tyrande and Velen to be “the Man” who get to be good guys in opposing Xe’ra.
If your argument against the expansion were based on lore, you wouldn’t have so many bad arguments. You’d also probably have moe actual evidence to back up your claims instead of having to rely on constantly asking people to explain the lore to you to show how you’re wrong. And your arguments wouldn’t be so self contradictory.
He doesn’t know what AU Xe’ra’s done yet. And if AU Xe’ra shows up and he doesn’t know all the terrible stuff she’s done, he’s got zero reason to be suspicious of her and all that much more reason to give her the benefit of the doubt. And that’s before she starts to manipulate him like she did Yrel.
The Scarlets were there from WoW’s Vanilla to show that the Light was capable of moral grayness and amorality. Arthas, one of the most well known Your problem is you you chafe at other Light based characters showing any similar such shades and keep insisting the Scarlets and their ideology are dead. In effect leaving everything else associated with the Light is just all good and everything else is various shades of morally gray/amoral/bad.
Which is way worse than the Light being morally gray or amoral. And it puts you at odds with lore and existing story developments when they actually do try to introduce some more nuance to the Light and its characterization beyond the Scarlets to make things more consistent with the other cosmic forces.
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Says the man who followed me from one thread to another to trash-talk me. Reminds me of cyberstalking.
That might be true if not for the fact that there are only 3-4 active threads right now. He’s probably just bored like the rest of us.
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You’re confusing me for someone else. Don’t know who you think I am. But it’s kind of adorable that you think you’re worth following. Am I living rent free in your head or something?
Are you secretly John Barilaro? On no, this person replied to me on two separate threads on a somewhat public forum. Must be stalking!!!
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It can be fun living rent free in peoples head though, not gonna lie 
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You know, Quasimodo predicted this.
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Nostradamus? Or the humped bell ringer in Notre Dame?
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Both…both predicted it. Through spooky time wimey stuff 
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It can be. The fact that you three followed me to this thread from the “Frat Boy” thread @Denona, @Renautus and @Micah says I’m living rent free in all your heads.
Is it really following you when we all have responded to this thread in the past?
Are you sure you are not Bruz? Because you are starting to sound like you are. What’s next? You gonna send the fixated persons unit on random people on the internet because they hurt your feelings?
By the sounds of it, you just want an echo chamber.
Are they christened part of your little hate squad, as well? Ever stop to think that maybe when you make threads on a public discussion forum, it may garner replies that disagree with your statements?
You call it living rent free in the heads of others… but you made a thread to discuss the lore on a public discussion forum. These are the replies you got.
You even nagged at Tammy for not replying - then you accused her of being my sock puppet when she finally does reply. And you also accused her of needing the last word when she has a discussion with you.
You seem delusional, to nag someone about ignoring you, then accuse her of being my sock puppet, then you invent a “hate squad” because people reply to your posts in a Discussion Forum.
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