9.2 Double Legendary Requirements

The info is out there that you need to be Revered in order to obtain Unity (based on available PTR information).

Personally, I’m not a fan of it having a reputation requirement when it could just as easily be attached to a campaign point as it’s account-wide once you unlock it.

Whilst doing the campaign on PTR, next to no quests on the campaign gave rep it was just world quests. I presume that rep will be added later to accelerate it? However, having to log in daily for this level of power gain to be competitive is not fun. It punishes people who cannot play daily and makes them less competitive.

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Besides it being punishing to lock it behind a daily, rather than a weekly lockout, world quests/dailies is frankly also a (to me) very boring form of content.

I dont mind grinding a reputation or something else, but give us an island type kind of content where you can just grind if you want more than the weekly, and youre not waiting to sweep the map to complete a few “Kill 5 trolls and collect 10 earrings” every six or 24 hours.

Diversify the content we need to do at least if you insist on wq/dailies to gain power, I was always happy to do the Kirin Tor world quests in legion for instance, because they were distinctly different from killing 8 corrupted spiders.

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Forcing grinding is never fun espcially when we have no way to tie it into the actual content we like doing (like PvP). So not giving rep on the basic quests just seems like blizzard milking us for game time which is really not cool forcing us to log on for dailies just to stay relevant in the game. I think if anything we could add rep to at least the quest line and add PvP call to arms to give people another avenue of getting that rep. Id even love to see the PvP chest drop return. Just add something besides filler dailies of kill X gather Y

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It’s very weird, cause right now even outside of that there is power tied to the new zone. We were told there wouldn’t be any and it keeps happening. Revered isn’t that bad if they get the reputation gains “fixed” if it’s also account wide but it just shouldn’t exist due to their own statements.

The conduit upgrade item is tied to exalted which I think is very poor design as well. The discrepancy in the first requirement(Keystone hero, Elite PvP, Full mythic raid clear) should be looked at and the reputation requirement re-considered since it goes against what we were told, as well as after seeing how Korthia was perceived.

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Its even more tonedeaf when you consider you can be elite first week while a full mythic clear is almost a multi month affair for even the top 3 guilds.

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Hello!

We’ve posted an update about acquiring the Belt of Unity and the Memory of Unity over on the PTR forum. Check it out and let us know your thoughts! :slight_smile:

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This is fantastic to see. Happy that everyone gets it at the same time, and I think that having the recraftable memory tied to the rep is a fine alternative.

I also think - while I am not one of them - that this is good for the players participating in the race to world first. Presumably the race would be over by then so they can have their plans set to not have double leggos available.

All in all, great change, thanks for making it.

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Seriously glad to see this its really great especially for those of us who hate grind rep to stay relevant

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Double legendaries are such a huge power boost I worry about the tuning of the tier. They’re too big to tune a fight effectively for both 1 lego and 2 legos. Like, by far too huge. You will have either tuned for 1 lego and it’s trivialized by 2, or tuned for 2 legos and it’s just criminally impossible before that point. It’s a super inorganic and unfun way to nerf a raid and leads to the same frustration Sanctum had with dom shards trivializing DPS checks.

Let’s not forget that tier set turns this into a 4-way tuning matrix. Tuning with/without tier set bonuses and tuning with/without double legos. You’re gonna toss yourself into an effectively random square of that tuning matrix where there is no sweet spot and people get frustrated by overtuned or undertuned bosses in every situation. It’s not ideal.

The meta will also shift in a particularly drastic way based on both tier and double legendaries, and that’s gonna be annoying to deal with in the middle of prog.

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Great change, any thoughts maybe on changing the conduit upgrade item as well? Exalted seems like a bit too much considering you already need CE/3k rating/Elite imo
Also just to add something, I think revered for conduits would be fine because it already takes a month anyway if you don’t want people to be getting it instantly, I just don’t like the idea of power behind exalted for the 3rd tier in a row.

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So I actually disagree with everyone here, but not about the rep requirement being nullified.

I think this change for raiders is very stale. Now we’re looking at waiting 5-6 weeks into the patch for something that effects which specs are brought to early progression, alters how classes play, and is overall a very fun addition and we as players have no agency to get the item sooner.

Why week 3 of Mythic? That’s a fairly large amount of time for a lot of raiding guilds especially early on. The issue I can see coming up is that some classes/specs are effectively being stuck with the fact that their class/spec just isn’t worth playing until it gets all of it’s pieces together. It feels like it’s more for a RWF time-gate and introducing something to decrease the difficulty of the raid. In the past this has been done with effects like archive of the titans in Uldir, or unlocking higher corruption resistance every week along with the main stat proc eventually through Nylotha. Instead of creating something less impactful to do these soft ways of effectively outscaling the raid, we’re using the second most impactful item-set in the patch only next to tier sets.

The issue with reputation grinds was for most people the acquisition of the reputation and the rewards being so low, a recent example being Korthia. The amount of effort for sockets and conduits wasn’t proportional to how long it takes to farm it all out, though that does seem to be fixed moving forward however. Even in Korthia players had more control over when we obtained what we wanted. Revered was fine for double legendaries because of when the item itself was obtainable and it was a big reward, the effort felt like it was earned.

Now that option isn’t in the players hand anymore, it’s just an arbitrary week that gets chosen to unlock for everyone. It’s much easier to get for everybody now but still having to wait 3 weeks into the raid and play effectively a totally different class until that point, which is an even bigger deal when it comes to early prog when it’s the most important to optimize all the small percentage points super early into gearing.

tuning would have to take that into account for people who expect the first few weeks to be challenging, and that would in turn deprive many raids of what we think will be a fun and enjoyable boost in power after striving as far as they can without it.

As for this as well, it makes perfect sense but I still feel it’s not taking into account the impact and variety between classes currently on the PTR from when they have double legendary and when they don’t.

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I think if your class is really broken by not getting two legendaries and you remain irrelevant until you have that thing its more of a balance issue and more on the side of a problem per class basis

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Historically revered took ~2 weeks into a patch to get, if we assumed they had corrected a lot of the very obvious reputation bugs(weekly giving less than a WQ, certain events giving 0)we can assume it would’ve been 2, now it’s 5. That’s a significant increase in wait time especially when for a lot of raiders, a lot of progression happens early and it’s crucial at setting the pace. With some specs having altered playstyles and altered covenants. Even if we assume the prior of “28 days” was accurate, that doesn’t make this ok in any way. It makes BOTH bad.

I wouldn’t even say it’s a balance issue either, WoW is not a sword and shield game. There’s 36 specs and hundreds of talent combinations. Some classes will both “feel” better and “perform” better with such impactful increases, and some won’t even notice it. While balance is important I don’t think having ANYONE wait 5 weeks into a patch for something so important going into the next tier is ok.

5 weeks into the patch your last talent row will unlock, 5 weeks into the patch your tier sets will become active, 5 weeks into the patch you can use consumables, 5 weeks into the patch become usable, 5 weeks into the patch you can start acquiring legendaries, 5 weeks into the patch you can start gaining corruption, 5 weeks into the patch you can start gaining domination sockets/gems.

Sure it’s a bit of hyperbole, but the impact is very close and why we have 0 player agency when we get it, on top of it being THAT long for something so impactful to how your class may play and may perform, is crazy to me.

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If the legendary is just good for your class this would apply. Not everyone is excited about the legendaries. Im just glad I only have to do it once and its account bound after that

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That’s fair, but that’s also why I specified it won’t be “amazing” for everyone. But just because the legendary may be not that exciting or that great for some, doesn’t mean the fundamental issue doesn’t exist.

I do believe there are major balance issues, not even between classes but the impact of things like double legendary and tier, that hopefully they address(Not like class balance is that hot either lol).

I think this way its less of a DO THIS OR ELSE UR BEHIND and more of a we all gonna get to it eventually no need to log on everyday and grind to get left behind.

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That’s sort of WoW no? At least from my perspective.

If I don’t raid I get left behind. If I don’t PvP I get left behind. If I don’t do m+ I get left behind, but I don’t do PvP cause I don’t like it and I take that as an acceptable loss for the content I do. I think for me the biggest issue with certain grinds is the rewards are not impactful and the acquisition is tedious.

I like to earn what I have. Once you take away the time people put into the game, you lose players. Just look at how WoW has become when it moved away from evergreen style systems and every patch it’s a reset. I don’t have an issue with grinds, the issue I have is every patch it’s another grind for the same items I already grinded for. But I do want my time to matter, and I want to make decisions to increase my player power. Not sit here for 5 weeks looking at this juicy meal but you can’t touch it and no way to earn it. Week 5 we’ll drop it in your lap.

It’s also a weird concept because the “Daily grind” was extremely minimal, but more timegating is the answer? That’s assuming 28 days implies the reputation gains aren’t obviously bugged.

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I dont really think logging on every single day just because I have or else is the same spirit of WoW. If we kept the current system and maybe I had to miss two days of playing WoW and not unlock the legendary which would cause my performance in raid to slide thats a very unfun feature and I think against what WoW is doing. Now if I miss 5 days of current wow I can always catch up another day and not be behind. The game should not be a job where it requires 100% of my devoted time.

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Isn’t that a choice? If I choose to not do 10 keys this week, I’m accepting the loss of a vault option. If I choose to not clear the raid on a character, I’m accepting the loss of vital raid resources/gear. If I choose to not do my dailies today, I’m accepting the loss of the reputation gain.

As long as the acquisition and reward are acceptable, is it really that bad to have a choice? Blizzard has multitudes of catch-ups they’ve used on previous systems so players don’t fall too behind, why not advocate more for those types of systems? I think logging into the game and having more options than just M+ and Raid for power increases is important.

If we kept the current system and maybe I had to miss two days of playing WoW and not unlock the legendary which would cause my performance in raid to slide thats a very unfun feature and I think against what WoW is doing

And right now, not only do you have no agency over getting your legendary sooner. If you play a class or a spec that you enjoy where the 2nd legendary synergizes so well with your spec/tier you have to play an entirely different playstyle while doing less relative damage to your peers, it’s ok? Player choice is so important in my opinion, and it’s Blizzards responsibility to have an appropriate effort to reward ratio.

It’s also very disingenuous in a discussion to force something upon yourself and then say it’s forced upon you. I feel the discussion of the system itself and the effort to reward ratio/acquisition are more vital.

But this has also gotten sort of off-topic so probably my last post on our conversation about acquisitions, dailies, etc. I’m glad they listened to feedback, but from a raid perspective I’m not looking forward to the raid tuning being similar to the Kingda Ka. A much more linear tuning with the double legendary in mind, without hindering certain classes early on, and introducing other methods of “nerfing the raid” would be much more enjoyable. This whole massive drop in difficulty week 2(SoD), week 3(Sotfo) has not been it.

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