Fixed that for you.
Neither of you were capable of disproving anything I said in my original post. /thread.
Everyone likes defending their favorite class/spec. Does not mean what is said is correct.
Thanks.
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Fixed it for you.
You didnât âproveâ anything lol. Like I said you have no experience in this topic besides what you read from other people and cherry picking the ones that support your narrative. When you can prove that you have experience in this matter, maybe Iâll take you seriously.
Yeah I agree. The problem is that a terribly played Prot pal is just squishier and has less hp than other tanks esp druids/warrior/monk (bar the hp)⌠a bad DH tank is easy to spot too.
Even at a low-ish ilvl at this stage/end of s1, I can practically face tank 90-95% of the packs in fortified 20s without trees/ele/cardboard. However, itâs worth noting that itâs harder to make very big pulls as prot pal unlike war/dru/DH since they are either much beefier with CDs and/or can kite better. Itâs a trade off, we do more damage but donât allow our DPS to AoE as much as they can, given our survivability.
22-23+ would be a different story though. But I suppose thatâs expected from a 223 ilvl tank.
On the other hand, Prot does need a 10% hp buff and maybe 5-10% magic damage mitigation of sort. Weâll probably see some tuning like that in the middle of season 2.
Take this with a grain of salt (my highest keys are 18 this season), but prot paladin is the only tank that can do its full (or near full without hammers) rotation from range and has a semi permanent 50% slow. If thereâs some reason that standing on the opposite side of consecrate while doing full damage and defense rotation is bad kiting, please explain.
I feel like most people say paladins are bad at kiting because theyâre bad at staying 40yds away from the pull when itâs very easy to stay 15yds away while leaving a tight group.
Iâm in no way implying that theyâre the strongest or meta tank, but Iâm very curious why everyone thinks paladins suck at kiting.
Icy veins is generally pretty wrong on anything past beginner. I would swap dh and Warr. Dh goes to a. DK to bottom. Pale to a. All tanks fine.
The tier list and the meta are built on using these classes in a certain way. The tanks are quite balanced at the 15âs level.
They start to separate as you go up because of what they can do when in a coordinated group using meta tactics as well as classes.
Pallyâs can kite well with consecrated ground as mentioned, but they donât have âa certain set of skillsâ that fit in with how the meta plays. Which is to stack frequent CDâs. When a pally kites, they just stay on the other side of consecrate and pew pew stuff, but the hardest hitting dps classes (mage/shaman) need more stationary mobs for their uncapped ground effects to produce value.
This is why you see Guardian druid who can stand there for 30 seconds shooting up the list. This is why VDH was so dominant in s1. The ability to rotate through some low cooldown defensives (rather than pallyâs 2min / 3.5min / 5min CDâs with short durations) to stay put for as long as possible then sigil of chains and bounce out.
Thatâs different from âtheyâre better at kitingâ - theyâre better at keeping mobs together in one place for the maximum time possible and then escaping. This is also why warriors stonks are up too. They can tank physical damage all day, and at high levels, people are on top of interrupts so theyâre not eating every cast.
The goal of the tank is not to run around, the goal is to put the mobs in a place where dps can melt them. VDH can do this pretty much every minute which is another big reason (on top of magic damage debuff which fits in with the mage/shaman meta) theyâre so strong.
This largely doesnât exist in 15âs because people just donât play that way at this level, and you almost never have a meta group comp either. You donât need a VDH if youâre running around with fury warrior, hunter, warlock. A VDH isnât going to do something magical here compared to some other tank.
Iâm not going to say pallys arenât squishier than other tanks, they are, but not by enough and not until things start hitting much harder. Instead of a flat buff to pallys, Iâd much rather see their cooldowns cut down drastically in terms of time. GotAK at 3 minutes, DS even at 2-2.5 minutes. Frequency of cooldowns is whatâs important in WoW dungeons current state.
Icey is garbage ⌠people using wowhead and icy get it in their heads only certain classes / specs are good. And their generic builds really mess up the game.
When talking about m20+ competitive speed runs , of course there will be a meta. But in general all tanks, healers, and dps can time a m15 and with the right gear a teammates even break into 20+âŚ
Playing as warlock in 9.0 it was almost impossible for me to get into groups, because of those sites, I would always have to use my key, a few times people would invite me. My interupts, and dps were always competitive with the âS Tierâ classes / specs. A lot of it comes down to the player not the class.
Tanks are no different, some of the worst tanks Iâve played with are playing âs tierâ and some of the best playing âb tierâ
Look at your team, figure out what your team needs, build it the best you can to fill in the weak spots, and play what you want. Unless youâre planning on being on a competitive team, ignore all the websitesâŚ
But you donât bring lust, shroud, or treants. That is the problem. Itâs not a dps issue, itâs a utility issue. At the highest levels, lust, shroud, and utility like treants are important because you can no longer zerg stuff fast enough to win.
Theyâre not really wrong. Most Icy Veins articles are written by top end players with vast knowledge of the game.
The point is that the âmetaâ doesnât really matter if you arenât pushing bleeding edge content. If youâre doing 15s you just want the best players you can get, regardless of class.
If you actually look at the authors for icy vein and look them up. You be surprised on their actual rank.
Fixed that for you.
Iâm just here to shutdown anything Aewendil is saying, because 99% of the time itâs wrong.
Youâd think that would be the case but if youâre not playing meta, or massively overgearing the content youâre doing, youâre probably going to be ignored.
Sure but that doesnât mean you canât do the content, it just means you need to make your own group. Comp is really not that important at the +15 level, you can do it with any mix of classes as long as those people are decent.
That said the meta is the meta for a reason, and it would definitely be easier/more efficient with a better comp.
I just timed a +15 yesterday with a Prot Paladin, Warrior, Rogue, Ret Paladin, and a Fistweaver Monk. Thatâs 5 melee classes. No lust. No BR. People need to stop being lazy and make their own groups, or better yet, make friends.
Youâre assuming there are people in the game who understand anything more than what they are shown. Iâve seen raiders that play in the top 100 US that still see a DPS chart and thing âok now I know what Iâm rerollingâ without even taking into consideration what the chart means.
You really think people pugging keys are going to be like âyeah lets take 230 fire mageâ when it just got roasted? My Mage will still out DPS 99.999% of the people I queue with from pugs, consistently, but Iâm auto-removed if Iâm not Arcane or Frost for higher keys. Why log in?
People were taking arcane and frost mages in Season 1. I donât see the problem here, itâs the same thing just in reverse. Now frost is appealing and fire is taking a step back.
Read my post above. That was a full pug. 0 meta classes.
Post your own key. Canât get removed.
No
I was doing 15âs last patch and my friend (who Iâve been doing keys with since season 1 Legion) was removed from a key for being Frost. People were âtakingâ them, but youâre still dealing with meta slaves.
One of the meta tanks
Meta DPS
Also implying 15âs are hard to time to begin wtih.
I have a Spires, brb sitting in queue for 45 minutes because nobody wants to do a Tyrannical SoA.
Lol. Are you for real? Paladin tanks are not meta tanks. DH and now Druids are meta tanks.
So basically everyone is meta. Oh look you are too now.
People are pushing keys of all dungeons. Idk what your talking about. Have you even tried to post your own key this season? It fills up super quick, especially during peak hours. Iâm already 1500io from 2 days of pugging. Yes, pugging as a non-meta tank.
Oh, looks like you did read it. lol.
Paladins are meta tanks due to the raw damage the deal in keys. They drop off in the 20âs because of their inability to kite, but their damage makes up for it in anything prior to that.
Itâs scary that I know more about your spec than you do and I donât even play it.
If Prot had the same defensives as bear, or if SoTR actually scaled properly, Prot would likely be a hard meta the same as HPally.
Imagine thinking Resto Druid, a D tier healer, is meta.
Sat in queue for 30 minutes today.
Do you know what âMetaâ is? I know paladins are fully capable of running 15s and 20s. Iâve done it over 575 times in season 1. Paladins are not what is considered Meta by the player base. Itâs sad when someone with barely any experience tries to talk like they do.
Do you not see the irony here? If you are going by tier lists, Paladins are in second-to-last place. Clearly not meta by tier lists.
Itâs 9am. Idk where youâre from, but I doubt its prime time. Also what key level are you posting? 15s fill up real fast, Iâm assuming yours is more like a 10 or below which might be why.
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