This will probably have a greater impact on tank meta than anything else. If the meta shifts more melee, it puts way more value in battle shout or mystic touch. If havoc is really good, we’ll naturally see less DHs if they aren’t the absolute best.
But this is why the meta for tanks is such a toss up right now. The tank balance is really good, so the top tank will ultimately be decided by the damage meta and healer meta. Not saying that paladin will magically be top tank or anything, but I’m pretty excited for the shake up.
Also, lets not forget the affix schedule change. If Bursting/storming/fort is anything to judge by, it looks like we’re going to have a more flat curve in difficulty (not perfect) across the weeks.
And this is really what I think more people need to be putting the strongest emphasis on.
If you have to look at a guide or ay a resource to know what’s best, then it doesn’t matter what you play, you’re already not playing to that bleeding edge 0.01% of the playerbase.
I can say this as a DK, but post nerf 1 for M+, the kite meta was almost completely gone even for my DK (9.05), and post nerf 2 (10% buff for tanks), I never kited outside of very obvious mobs that need kited for debuff drops. We’re going into 9.1 with ANOTHER 10% autoattack damage nerf.
Most melee attacks, by virtue of buffs that were given to tank or by direct nerfs are reduced by 20-25% from start of expansion to live.
The only way I see someone being forced to kite is in the event of major mistakes, necrotic (which, everyone just got more tools to handle it via covenants), or the several mobs that apply stacking debuffs that MUST be kited. If you’re having to kite otherwise as a tank in standard keys (like, 15’s) there’s a better chance you or someone in your group is doing something very wrong like not using cooldowns remotely properly.
Tank balance outside of like, DK damage is so good right now tanks are brought to raid by virtue of their buff or debuff that’s missing from the raid.
No one’s kiting anything in +15, not even your healer when he rips aggo. +15’s are not being discussed here since literally every single class/spec in the game is viable in +15’s.
I don’t even know what this means. But most predictions for next tier are guardian>war/dh>brm>pally>dk.
Warrior how has 90%+ uptime on shield block since the intro of their new leggo. Thats 90% uptime on the best physical mitigation in the game.
However, if they are proven to be correct in the next several days, I will have to reroll. XD
You really won’t. These tier list only apply to bleeding edge content, which you aren’t doing.
Paladin is already by far the best tank class for doing keys in the 15 range. The only thing holding them back at the highest key levels is that they can’t really survive the hits at +22 and above. But at 15s they have the best damage and the best utility of any tank class.
He also likely spent most of the key dancing in circles and coordinating treants/cardboard assassin/kiting support.
Prot Paladins are squishy. There is no way around it. People on this thread can hide behind raider io statistics all day if they want. Unfortunately, that does not tell the entire picture. It does not change the fact that they are a paper tank. Some of the best tanks (in both M+/raid) and raid leaders in the world have criticized prot paladins specifically for this reason. Given the huge popularity of Prot Paladins in the 15 or lower bracket you would think some of that might transition to raid. It does not. Prot paladin is in fact the least represented tank in Mythic by FAR. They are far to much of a liability for progression guilds.
Most players will do fine with whatever tank they pick for the content they are doing. Does that make things right? Not really but it’s just the reality of it. You could time higher keys (while likely having a heart attack on every pull) with “degenerate” gameplay.
Personally speaking I think prot paladins could use somewhere around 10% HP buff and some form of buff to their mitigation. Prot paladins are one of the lowest HP tanks and are not exactly the most “tanky”. Realistically (not counting kyrian shield w/ avengers which gets destroyed in 1 melee swing in high keys) they have 2 actual mitigation cooldowns. Ardent defender and Guardian of the Ancient Kings. You can take final stand but that comes at a major loss by giving up righteous protector. And to be honest 3.5 minutes with 8 seconds kind of sucks when comparing it to somethin like god mode incarn for 30 seconds with a guardian druid. Guardian of the Ancient Kings is to long of a cooldown when comparing it to other tanks.
If not for M+ representation in the higher range then for raid representation prot paladins probably are due for a hp and mitigation buff.
I’m not hiding behind rio statistics at all. I’m stating it from 575 keys of season 1 experience. Prot Paladins are not that paper when played correctly. Are we as beefy as druids? No. But I am able to face tank in 20s without relying on cardboard.
You are welcome to refute that prot paladins are the least represented tank in mythic raiding and that the best players in the world have flat out said they are to squishy. Until then I’m not sure what you are saying. PS raid buffs do not tell the full picture there either.
Then you must be much better than some of the best tanks that play prot paladin in the world somehow. Sorry if I don’t believe that you are face tanking +20 fortified keys with 0 kiting or gimmicks like rotating treants.
Every tank kites certain pulls or with certain affixes. Moat pulls though, I face tank. You can choose not to take my word for it, it won’t bother me. Paladins are not as paper as some think. Final Stand is a great talent that is often over looked for more dps, but the dps loss is not much at all.
Raiding =/= M+
Some classes can perform really well in one content and not the other. Doesn’t mean it translates. Warlocks are top notch in raids but are close to bottom in M+. Paladins are often not taken in Mythic raiding moreso because of raid buffs that warriors and dhs bring.
There’s too many variables for you to rely on representation as data.
I’m sorry but saying “I don’t care” is not exactly an answer. But sure. You do you. Great defense. I think I made my point. Not going to argue with people that have blinders on at all times.
Post on your main. Do you even have experience tanking this expansion? I’m telling you from first hand experience, so who’s the one with blinders on? All you go by is from what you have read and choosing which stories fit your narrative.
It’s a way of me telling you that I don’t pay anywhere near enough attention to a subject to have an opinion. I’m not bothered by what’s going on in raiding because it has 0 impact on me.
Prot Paladins can be squishy, but they a lot of personal defensives at their disposal, and you need to actively monitor them. I have two tank defensives I have on fairly short 1-1.5 minute cds and I weave them inbetween a Prot Palys cds or use them when theirs are down. Between their cds and mine you can maintain a very high uptime on defensives on them compared to other tanks.
The main benefit with them is their DPS is the highest - especially if they’re Venthyr - compared to the other tanks. They can do 1k higher overall dps than DH tanks from what I’ve seen and that helps when pushing +20 keys. Big pulls and Ashen just melts stuff.
Prot Palys aren’t as obnoxiously squishy as DK tanks (or monks with the constant stagger damage), but in my opinion they require the most overall skill to utilize their entire package, and can excel in the right team.