Is it me, or did the OP’s SL 9.0 column describe vanilla and tbc style. Especially with the feedback from Legion and BFA.
GD says Visions give too much gear and are forced. Now GD asks why torgh doesn’t give gear.
The same can be said for every one of these bullet points. “You think you do” to the max.
I’m pretty sure everyone is done with the story and renown now. That’s the point. The story is interesting, the rest is a bit too repetitive if that is all you plan on doing.
Either roll back the shortening of the questing period (with a level cap off ramp for those who don’t like MMO’s, but enjoy the end game), or put in more optional questline content with a dash of grind for cosmetics or mounts.
Well, it had grind for cosmetics and mounts in spades.
Yeah I would always love more quest and story content. Wish it was faster, but it isn’t. Will come with 9.1.
In a lot of the games life, especially Wrath-TBC, patches didn’t even bother adding story content.
Well, back then, nothing was as streamlined either. I was a solo player in BC, was always behind - semi-solo in Wrath, and still lagged.
I didn’t go through every one of your logs, but a cursory glance at one log for each difficulty says otherwise. Your 9 wipes on mythic Hungering Destroyer, 6 wipes on Heroic Artificer Xymox, and 3 wipes on normal Sludgefist indicate you are presenting a completely false narrative.
I think 197 is fine for casual players and I’m very happy we get it this expansion… but the way to get it is absolutely boring! I like the idea of scaling Heroics with World Quests. I’m not a fan of M+ but would run Heroics all day long if the drops scaled up to 197.
World Quests are just not fun in Shadowlands but we have to grind the hell out of them to get anything. Just isn’t as fun.
Honestly you really shouldn’t be talking about logs either
Just saying.
This has nothing to do with my logs. I never made any statement as to my performance.
They made a claim that was obviously and easily refuted.
You don’t need any level of performance to call someone else out for lying.
Can’t speak for the other people, but my understanding is that the casuals complaining about being done with covenant/WQ gearing to iLvl 197/194 so quickly and having no other progression path are not saying that they wanted the same covenant/WQ progression to iLvl 197/194 to be fed to them more slowly, but that they would want to progress beyond iLvl 197/194 in the long term rather than hit a roadblock so quickly.
Why would anyone want to intentionally gimp their gearing progression? This is like people who said that Shadowlands low drop rates were a good thing because gearing was too fast in BfA. If you want to gear up more slowly for some reason, do the content more slowly or sell/disenchant every other piece.
Game devs tried to gaslight all players into thinking we all actually wanted to grind everything longer, when in reality they knew that 9.1 was a long way off and wanted to keep us grinding longer for the same thing. (Remember how they forgot to finish nerfing all the drop rates at the last minute, and CN Normal drop rates were “too high” that first week?)
Now elitists are trying to gaslight casuals into thinking that it would be better to grind even longer for the same subpar rewards.
Generally when you call someone out for their logs you should parse higher than greens.
Raids are made up of more than one person.
Proof hes lying?
Totally off topic… but how did you make your post so cleanly into a table?
So an easy solo/casual path to heroic and mythic raid gear?
Because normal raid gear for questing clearly isn’t enough.
How much do you get off on this nonsense? SL is the most casual friendly expansion in history. The only real problem is nobody likes each other because this game is filled with weird perverts and elitist alcoholics.
Korthia Is said to have competitive ilvl loot if you do the grind. Now how feasible that is another question. At least we have options now.
Their literal claim was:
But their own logs show they wiped multiple times on the same bosses across every difficulty. Which means their statement is in fact false.
No one said anything about parsing any color. It is entirely irrelevant to the discussion.
Irrelevant, the claim was that you don’t have to try and bosses fall over. That extends to all people. It is a dumb statement.
You must be under the assumption that every wipe is caused by intentionally trying to wipe the group then?
I did not say “Mythic” or even “Heroic”. I personally think that 210 would be a good compromise (which is below Heroic).
Normal raid gear is 200 and 207 in some slots. Covenant gear is 197 in 9 slots and world quests can give you 194 in the other 6-7 slots.
Given that one difficulty increase now equates to 13 item levels, questing gear is clearly below Normal raid gear, up to one whole difficulty for certain slots.
It’s easy to create a lie or exaggeration that no one would agree with and then shoot it down. Arguments should be based on facts.
If they hotfixed an increase to World Quest rewards, added further upgrade options to covenant gear, or made it so that all callings caches automatically dropped a 203 piece of loot then your position would be based on facts.
Within 3 item levels of normal raid for doing quests half afk watching Netflix.
Not even easy dungeons.
Quests
197 would be comparable to 249 gear for ICC which also was a 13 item level gap between difficulties (251/264/277) and the casual catchup ICC heroics dropped 232.
Now questing for within 3 item levels of normal raid gear isn’t strong enough. Not not enough progression for doing quests. Now it should be 210, that’s within 3 item levels of heroic. That’s better than 1600 in rated PvP.
That’s like 9 slots of 261 gear in ICC.
For questing.
WotLK was an entirely different situation. It rewarded a variety of players well, and was arguably the most popular expansion.
SL has 4 difficulty tiers compared to just 3, creating an even larger power gap.
SL has scaling, meaning your power gains mean much less in the open world. And believe me, casuals need every power advantage they can get to solo all those rares.
SL has Torghast, which is clearly tuned for raiding gear, but mysteriously drops no gear. (In WotLK, you honestly didn’t need raiding gear if you didn’t raid.)
All you can say is “no, no, no!” to any idea of casuals getting gear, citing any possible excuse, without considering how the overall design of Shadowlands is fundamentally flawed.
If Torghast or some other activity dropped decent gear, then covenant sets and world quests would be fine where they are.
If Normal raiding were made queuable (and LFR removed), lower Mythic Plus difficulties were made queuable, or solo rated PvP were made queuable, then that would also be a different story.
But if you can look at Shadowlands gearing systems as we have it now and say that it is fine, then it means you are aligned with the current vision of WoW’s development team. Congratulations, you would be successful in driving away all those filthy casual players from your game. You could stop publishing metrics about users and say that everything is working as intended.