I love it when people go “BUT MUH HARDCOOR!”
And they are forgetting that every single MMO EVER that has attempted to cater to hardcores falls flat on their face.
It’s almost like, I don’t know, casuals are the majority and they keep the game alive?
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There is progression. Solo then 5-man then Raid. The current progression design is good to me as it rewards those who make an effort. Your dream progression of awarding Solo with powerful items that doesnt need an effort is BAD DESIGN for me.
Except most of these aren’t really issues.
Half of the fun of earning higher level gear is having to EARN it. There’s no value in something you don’t earn. There is a purpose and a storyline and Doing those gets you good gear. I.E. mythics and raids. What benefit does doing really easy and basic world quests and ignoring the story bring to a player? The only reason to want this gear is to do harder content or for looks. If everyone can get it super easily no one will want it.
OP seems to want everything handed to them with no work or effort and myself and I think the majority of the player case disagree.
Also, I doubt the OP has ever played in mythic +, all it takes is a few bad runs with someone who has no idea of mechanics to ruin your 30-40 minutes of time completely. There’s a reason players don’t take low ilevel people to dungeons and it’s a good and valid reason. The other option is that players only group with people they know. Period point blank, then people will really cry about it not being casual friendly.
M+ and PvP?
If you’re talking about Heroic (or lower) raiding, it’s even less relevant than Mythic Raiding, since even H Denathrius/SLG drops get outclassed by M+ gear.
Kinda ruins your argument though. “Blizzard designs the game around raiders” doesn’t hold much weight when raiding is the least relevant endgame content, and “Blizzard designs the content around end-game players” is kind of a no duh.
What meaningful content? World Quests are still there, they’ve just crossed out “Azerite” and written “Anima” in it’s place.
Ironically, as a “casual” who eschews any forms of group content, you were even more screwed over by Azerite Power early on in the expansion, since it wasn’t until later stages in the game that actually usable Azerite armour, as well as progression for the HoA in things beyond Azerite armour were actually added.
Why do people assume that casual players don’t participate in M+, Raids or PvP?
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Depends on your definition of “casual”.
I mean, if you’re pushing +10s or higher, I can’t really call you a casual and if you’re into Heroic+ raiding, I can’t really say you’re casual either.
Since you want to move the goalposts to the weekly vault…
It’s one RNG piece per week and you have to have done 10 mythic plus dungeons with the top dungeons being in the 14 and 15 range. That’s very challenging and very competitive content. So the point still stands.
Plus I’m not sure why you’re bringing up mythic dungeons when the title of the thread is a whine about non-competitive playerbase being disenfranchised. Mythic plus was created for the sole purpose of adding another competitive aspect to the game. So…I guess yeah it didn’t kill raids. It simply added another option for competitive players.
And I’m not sure how else to explain something as simple as the difference between the beginning and end of an expansion. It’s pretty self explanatory if you’ve played WOW for any length of time. When an expansion starts, everyone starts from the same starting gate. When an expansion is ending, the competitive aspect is mostly over as far as PVE goes.
Apparently it’s not anymore so I suggest you adapt or move on.
I don’t define casuals as invalids or people who only have 30 seconds a day to play the game.
I disagree with that assessment, Heroic and M+ above +10’s don’t require any more significant time investment than lower keys or lower levels of raiding do.
Which still exist and by your definition of “casual”, still offer casuals an avenue into end-game content.
According to datamining sites like worldofwargraphs, around 40% of the playerbase reliably gets Ahead of the Curve every tier. If you add people who do Heroic (but don’t clear it), you’re probably approaching or passing the halfway point of the playerbase.
So most players aren’t casual by your definition. Good to know.
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Shouldn’t have to.
There’s no reason why casual/non-competitive people cannot co-exist in the same game with the hardcore/competitive crowd.
I don’t think there’s any casuals out there who are asking for m+/mythic raid level gear, however, maybe what we’re asking for, is some sort of rewarding activity we can do that is fun, and engaging, but yet maybe not reliant upon some social aspect?
I dunno, I recall previous expansions having such a system.
If you can’t Q up for it, it ain’t casual IMO.
This removes Mythic+ and Normal+ Raiding, which both require guilds (the LFG channel/PUG scene sure ain’t gonna get you into those if you’re a casual).
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You can’t queue for quests. Are they hardcore?
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Ha ha ha. Very funny.
Want to try again?
I was obviously talking about content requiring groups.
Can’t queue for world bosses.
Are they hardcore too?
You can queue for world bosses… kinda.
They give you a tool to find groups for it, and you just have to keep trying it until you find someone with a group listed that’s auto-join.
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It’s not moving the goalposts when it’s something I’ve been talking about.
It’s not my fault if you didn’t read my posts.
Is there a reason we can’t have solo content that is challenging that requires running it a bunch of times? Something can be challenging and not competitive, especially in solo play.
When I say Horrific Visions am I only ever allowed to use that exact system pixel for pixel and not ever allowed to suggest that they might change it to address concerns?
Or are you going to call that moving the goalposts too?
I mention them because A. People insist that solo content will ruin both raids AND dungeons and B. the OP talks about the M+ dungeon system and why it disenfranchises non-competitive players.
I’ve played WoW since 2004. You can even feel free to check my legacy PvP achievements to see I earned Knight-Lieutenant back in Vanilla.
Logically if the competitive aspect is ending at the end of the expansion, then there should be less reason for people to want to run the competitive PvE content and the solo content should be even more attractive than usual.
If people are actually running mythic content for the competitive aspect, then solo play shouldn’t affect that since it shouldn’t be competitive when you’re by yourself.
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The queue for world bosses is identical to the queue for Heroic Raids and M+.
So are world bosses hardcore?
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Every time challenging solo content is added to the game, the players break out the torches and pitchforks. Mage Tower. Horrific Visions. Torghast. The Maw.
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I have never seen anybody with a Heroic Raid or M+ that was auto-join, lol.
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People break out the pitchforks any time there is change in the game.
That isn’t an argument that we should never change things.
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Hey, it’s your definition of casual.
Not my fault you have to keep moving the goalposts.
Personally? I define casual as someone who has limited time to play and/or irregular playtimes. What they do with that playtime is irrelevant in that definition.
To me someone who clears heroic and does M+ while playing for 3-4 hours a week is significantly more casual than someone who plays for 20+ but never does anything more difficult than WQ’s.