https:// en.wikipedia. org/wiki /Haavara_Agreement
1 Like
Yet again, as Tyrande states this, Thalyssra and her people are risking their lives to stop Azshara. Thalyssra we know from raid descriptions will personally fight in the raid alongside Shandris. In the mythic version, she will even become old god corrupted because she was protecting the heroes/other NPCs that were there instead of herself.
Yes, sure, they bubbled up thousands of years ago, but now that Thalyssra is the leader they are very proactive. She even convinces Lor’themar to call a truce with the night elves to deal with Azshara.
8 Likes
You would be dissappointed.
The United States spared 1600 National Socialists for it’s rocket program. In addition some of the worst butchers were spared for their information they had on the Soviets, with the CIA and FBI blocking efforts by Israel to extradite them.
And that’s not even mentioning Argentina… A few were ultimately offered up at the Nuremburg Trials, but the vast majority of the National Socialist movers and shakers survived, almost all of them have died of old age by now… living quietly under the radar.
1 Like
Where did you find this quote? I tried looking for it myself but the only google result goes back to this thread and I couldn’t find it on Wowhead either.
It was from the dataminers discord. Someone may have been pulling my leg though. Sorry if it becomes untrue.
Yeah I saw it too then in wowhead discord PTR channel maybe someone spread a false information maybe it is just isolated text (like all aggro and death quotes which are usually overlooked) that hasn’t been posted yet.
Doesn’t change the fact that her and her people actively supported genocide. At one point Tyrande compared Thalyssra to Azshara then Thalyssra immediately went about assisting in committing an act far worse than even Azshara could ever manage to pull off.
Fighting against Azshara now doesn’t rectify her hand in helping genocide. Nor does it erase that they ran away from Azshara before, doubly so since the Azshara we’re facing now has far and away less power than she did before. Previously she had the burning legion and a massive empire backing her up and Thalyssra’s people ran. Now, all she has is the naga and an imprisoned N’zoth as her allies and only now do the Nightborne jump in against this severely weakened Azshara.
They are still cowards.
3 Likes
The Nightborne weren’t present in any part of the War of Thorns. There’s never been a moment where a Nightborne character has “actively supported genocide.”
5 Likes
Pretty much everyone who continued to support the Horde afterward supported genocide. That’s why all this free Baine honor stuff rings so false. Baine supported genocide through his complacency and didn’t take stand until it Jaina’s brother came along.
Of course it doesn’t matter because blizzard doesn’t consider in game genocide a big deal. Honestly, I don’t either, but let’s not pretend that getting rid of Sylvanas somehow clears the sins that occurred while she was in charge.
9 Likes
This is an interesting thought, something I am starting to believe might be the case after seeing some of Lor’themar’s lines in 8.2…
I am starting to wonder if not everyone in the Horde knows what happened to Teldrassil. Only Sylvanas, Saurfang, Nathanos, PC, and whoever was directly there involved know it was Sylvanas. How do we know Baine, and the rest of the Horde, weren’t lied to by Sylvanas and she blamed it on something else entirely?
Lor’themar mentions in one of his lines in 8.2 that Sylvanas still has the support of the people so he wasn’t sure if the Blood Elves would follow him to help Baine be set free.
What if Sylvanas has kept a tight lid on what happened to Teldrassil because she knows the majority of the Horde would not be okay with the fact that she committed genocide. Just a thought, I could be wrong.
An Orc father and son are openly discussing it on the streets of Orgrimmar. (Yes, it’s a God of War reference. But reference characters are still canon. See: John J. Keeshan, Horatio Laine, and Harrison Jones.) Lor’themar also brings it up in passing after Baine is arrested. Not to mention all the soldiers recruited to the Darkshore Warfront, who can actively see its smoking husk on the horizon.
It’s not a big secret.
8 Likes
Ah. Good to know. My theory is wrong then hahaha.
It’s a blunder born of the medium. They wanted to open the new expansion with a big bang, some momentous event we’d all be talking about, and some genius decided this would be one of the player factions committing genocide against the other.
Problem is, it’s completely ridiculous to have the “honourable” Horde either ignore it happened (Lor’themar), grumble about it and desert over an unrelated incident (Saurfang), or rebel over infinitely minor acts of villainy instead (Baine). In a better structured narrative we’d have gradually built up to Sylvanas crossing the line and losing the Horde’s support.
I don’t think these writers quite understand how thoroughly they’ve demolished the Horde’s credibility as a faction by making us all party to the most indefensible act imaginable in the prologue and only finding our conscience over a liberal interpretation of the Forsaken’s free will clause. It’s beyond idiotic.
24 Likes
This is what happens when you try to copy A Song of Ice and Fire and fail thanks to your mediocre skills while at it…
3 Likes
Re: Teldrassil and future plot:
The burning is such a large elephant in the room, that to make sense of this current direction, you have to ignore it and pretend it hasn’t happened to a degree.
14 Likes
Honestly, this. Like for example, in the future when we’re fighting villains trying to save the world it’s like… ok, here I am trying to save the world. But those horde guys over there are and have been wiping out everything i’m fighting for.
Like the Pandaria intro cinematic asked us what was worth fighting for and did so while heavily suggesting that the answer was friends and family. Well, the horde just killed all the night elves friends and family and if given the chance would do it to the rest of the alliance as well. So… do we still fight with them? Is fighting even worth it anymore? In the case of the night elves at the very least I’d say it isn’t. At this point they could be willing to watch the world burn rather than save it and be totally justified, because there’s nothing left for them to save anyway.
I guess what i’m trying to say is. Why should the alliance fight to save the world if the horde is just going to wipe them out anyway? It feels more like we’re keeping the planet in order until the horde totally wipes out the alliance rather than actually fighting to survive at this point considering the horde is never punished for its actions.
4 Likes
Not to sound nitpicky or anything, but my understanding is that most of Darnassus was actually successfully evacuated. The majority of night elves got out of the War of Thorns alive.
Still lost their home city and, like, a lot of elves, but they certainly still have a lot to fight for.
That aside, I do agree with you. The Alliance can’t keep tolerating the Horde, the Horde just keeps attacking them. It’s utterly ridiculous that they should be expected to stand aside after the, what, third time the Horde’s started a war with them?
There honestly has to be another reason for the Alliance to want to stop the war with the Horde than just “Sylvanas isn’t warchief anymore.” They tried that with Garrosh, and it just led to Sylvanas getting the power and starting a war.
5 Likes
That’s why Baine should be Warchief, or Lor’themar.
Vol’jin didn’t really have an issue with the Alliance, but Sylvanas succeeded him. Having a peace wanting Warchief in the past has not stopped the Horde from turning around and attacking them.
9 Likes
Yeah, Blizzard won’t allow anyone with good intentions to remain in a Warchief position.
1 Like