Huh?
/10ch
4 Likes
Exactly as I said.
Can you name unique utility Dk brings as a tank that others do not possess?
Grips are nice, but arent always viable since it is a form of cc.
To elaborate, the only large benefit a bdk has over the other tanks is their self sustain.
Damage? 4th plsce iirc since VH, Pal, War are all higher.
Tankiness? Arguably second place since pally is weaker passively and they are great for magic mitigation due to DS and AMS.
Utility? Nothing to mention.
Agreed. Iâve already lived in Prot Warrior purgatory once before, during CMs seasons 1/2, finallly given some love recently to have it reduced not long after the fix. Nothing makes you feel more like a bada$$ than casting Avatar and wrecking mobs-
You cannot disprove or provide any backing to any of your points against me, so you take a pot shot at the âlol lvl 20â
Well this was fun.
Why does a utility have to be unique to be present?
Weâve all been living the in the shadow of DKs (with the exception of monk) for their more varied utility kit, up to and including an interrupt with a 20 yd range, brez, 2 enemy displacement skills, magical immunity and ST stun.
I donât even know why you brought up tankiness, part of their core design is to soak hits. High health, damage based healing. They arenât supposed to be bulk city. They are the opposite of a warrior tank style.
You canât just dismiss all their utility skills because theyâve been pushed out of meta due to reaping.
6 Likes
Those utility skills are not dismissed, but because they lack their own unique quality it makes one less appealing to take with them.
Yes. BDK has been dominant, its design makes it ideal for dealing with a msgic based encounter but as we have seen un bfa and how m+ is progressing unless they are flat put the best at being a meat tank there isnt a reason to bring one.
If i need soneone who can tank hits and not die? Paladin or warrior.
Damage? Paladin or warrior.
Utolity? Why would i take a BDK if his grips dont work? For a ranged interrupt? The vast majority of the time a dps can do it if the tank is being forced to tank.
There is a reason the mdi could finish faster with prot warrior over bdk.
They are tankier.
They hit harder, and while pulling mobs together is nice, its not hard cc compared to an aoe stun.
A brez is nice but only if someone screws up badly.
Being able to flat out ignore damage is very good.
Warrior is strong because in a game where utility isnno longer unique to classes, and so because it has such mitigation, because it isnlike a 4th dps, its number 1.
Like I said. The healthiest way to balance is to do specific nerfs, but buffs as well.
I want to know who I am addressing before I use my energy to do it. Donât feel bad.
1 Like
Blood DK has no utility?
Every time I see a broken CC or a patting mob I wish I had death grip, or if they are already casting, a ranged interrupt (if I want to remained fixed in my current position).
Utility is no longer unique to classes? Last I checked I donât have a ring of peace.
The stun is a cone, fyi.
3 Likes
Grass is always greener on the other side. Sure. You do not have grip, but you have a leap and 2 charges. It is nothing to leap, shield bash, rush back.
Best part about it is that unlike grip, if the mob is cc immune you can still do it where a dk cant because they are immobile.
As for the coneâŠreally? That isnt a counter argument. Its a large ape stun. Positioning should not be an issue if you know how to utilize prot warrior mobility.
So again, why would i bring a bdk over a warrior?
The way you are viewing the issue should not be âwhat do i not haveâ it should be âwhat do we both bring?â.
As those similarities increase, you begin to take more of what is needed at the basic level. Damage and mitigation.
It is why the MDI had primarily warriors. Yeah you can bring a bdk, hell ALL the tanks can do high keys. It becomes an issue of who can do it best, and warriors are crushing it. The nerf thats been instituted wont change their dominance, and its an acceptable nerf.
Not saying warriors should be gutted, that would be stupid. One only needs to look at frost dk as an example of misreading why something does well.
I am saying their damage could be tweaked because they bring so much more than the other tanks without losing very much.
From there, you buff the other tanks to equalize things further and improve comp vsriety. If warrior stays top? Not an issue if the others can compete.
Right now you dont really want anything except warrior.
So again, why would i bring a bdk over a warrior?
You know for close to 3 years it was Blood DK and Warriors were not even alive. Its been a single season getting close to 5 months.
I feel its the seasonal affix that vaults warriors past other classes. They were doing great damage but last season their management of Infested was so inferior that I believe there was 1-2 in top 100. I suppose I can check but off the top of my head that was it. This seasonal affix says do a lot of damage. We do. Should the next seasonal affix require more finesse, we will not have as much success, in my opinion.
We take take physical damage well. We do good AoE damage.
Utility exists, but is so minimal on a per-pull basis it hardly moves the needle.
If for damage we are brought in line, then we bring the kind of damage any tank can do with the same minimal utility. That might make other tanks feel as if they gained relevance, but will allow warriors to be easily forgotten. Maybe that is âthe sky is fallingâ type of talk, but when have warriors been a preeminent tank in recent memory?
3 Likes
Why are you so hung up on 1 mdi? We have to completely rely on the group for almost every control based affix. The s2 affix is reaping.
Iâm not saying Iâm even remotely concerned about the proposed nerf, but your claim that DK somehow went from best by a wide margin (except monk) in s1 and at least the entire second half of Legion to a complete trash can is ludicrous.
As Drez has said in other threads, the these guys regard MDI level keys as mid level. They are also the type of people who reroll for even marginal advantages. Next season may very well be enemy displacement and weâwill again have no answer at all. Or cc and weâll all bow to monks.
I saw no such outcry when every tank was a death knight. Go to a thread and say DK is too strong in s1 and everyone points to super utility groups, with 2 brs, 4 cc (including control undead), 3 enemy displacement skills, etc.
It really feels like you rerolled at some point to DK and now youâre upset that theyâve been knocked off that pedestal. If you like being a bulky boy, donât play a damage sponge.
5 Likes
I would assume everyone so far as your points have been drastically invalid.
What are you smoking the utility that DK bring is the only reason they stayed on top in season 1.
Grip- Only a DK ability
Wait MASS GRIP- DH has this but lets be honest its 1/4 as effective.
Range stun- Common
Aoe Slow- By far the best slow you can get behind a monks ROP
Range Interrupt- kind of a big deal
Control Undead- Pretty unique and benefits multiple dungeons
Battle Rez- Guardian druid share but think about it GUARDIAN DRUID.
AMS- I will just leave this as it is
You sir are silly to pull a lack of utility card on BDK, but if you wanna downside them the damage output is garbage and damage mitigation is now sub par compared to many other tanks.
5 Likes
To be fair, SR>AMS
2 Likes
So when forming pugs 90% of the time tank is the last thing to fill. Sometimes you get that far and everyone realizes, oh, no brez in the group yet. I promise you no has ever been like, well I guess we need to grab a guardian druid now. Its adorable that they all apply when you put âtank brezâ in the group title.
And I still prefer BDK in KR for control undead, though they make me hold my breath in the miniboss room.
Not hung up on it, apologies for pointing at what supports my view?
Let alone, never did I claim there is a wide margin difference, that is your interpretation. I am stating there is a reason warriors are so much more preferred over other tanks.
How the utility which is being homogenized between classes affects the way tanks are viable. I also do not care about the past. This odd hang up that you and several others have over BDK being the best in the past needs to be let go. We get it BDK was the best, but that was then, this is now.
We arent in legion, we are in BFA.
As for who I play, that is an ad hominem because I make it my goal to have every single tank class, because I enjoy tanking. Hence, thenreasoning of my posts that states rather explicitly that the only true nerfs warrior really needs should be to damage and not in a dramatic way.
It is nice to see you are playing victim though.
@karmo: I could have sworn it was the massive ampunt of passive mitigation and active mitigation they possessed. The fact they are one of the best if not be dr t magic mitigstion tank. How their hige self healing ennles the healer to dps.
Grips are nice, but when grips are gone there is little else they possess. Their mobility is poor, hence the ranged interrupt but good positioning can let you yank mobs close.
Aoe slow is strong, but oh look, everyone has a form of cc.
Ranged intereupt? A warrior can just as easily, leap, pummel, charge and keep everything together.
A brez is nice, but noone is going âwe need a guardian or a dk for the brez!â
When your utility can be substituted elsewhere, you base your comp on base necessities like damage and tankiness. Warrior has both, its getting nerfed.
Now the other tanks, especially bear, need buffs to bring them on par.
Ill give you control undead though, its pretty sexy.
Youâre reaching. I played prot warrior all through 8.0.1 and was one of its biggest supporters. Idc about DK because itâs dull.
But my opinions have no bearing on the fact that DK is replete with utility. Idc what you play or what you have, if you think Dks need more utility than what they already possess, youâre a fool.
Your point about tank utility homogenization is also ridiculous. Not going over every utility, but paladin, dh and DK are the only tanks who can interrupt from range, druid and DK are the only ones with brez, monk and dh are the only ones with strong cc and control undead isnât useless.
There are only so many categories for utility, if any tank has more than 1 category then there will be overlap. 3/6 are super mobile, 3/6 are not. 1 tank is all mitigation, 2 are primarily soak and sustain, 1 reverse heals, 1 is soak and mitigate and the other is a paladin which does it all.
We have the tools that complement our tanking style. Dk is slow and has the best snare and the ability to close the gap through grip and monk is fast and takes the most damage, but also gains more healing received based on their crit Stat with skills that aoe at range.
This proclamation of low utility on DK is frankly obscene.
4 Likes
Different spells, if itâs a Magic Dot for example i see AMS ahead.
1 Like
Fair point, unless you can reflect that dot
Wasting Strikeâs adorable
1 Like
I mean thatâs the thing, if you can reflect the stuff i agree SR comes ahead. But for someone that is like new to tanking and to content (someone starting to do Raiding or dungeons) i would say that AMS is easier to handle too.
5 Likes
Not really, I am considering not only the tank but also what will be available from the comp.
If the utility brought by those respective classes were so critical and unique the issue of warrior damage being their niche would not be such a concern.
I just dont agree with your interpretation of what is occurring.