First, I understand the reasoning for nerfing thunderclap. Yes, as discussed in other threads, in mythic+18 and above, or +18 capable players running low keys, the the strategy is pulling of large numbers of trash mobs at a time to leverage AOE. That results in warrior tanks being more effective than some other tanks in +18. Yes, that can be “fixed” by nerfing thunderclap.
However, this “fix” to mythic+18 makes thunderclap inadequate for AOE threat generation for average players in average groups in dungeons most people actually do, such as normal, heroic, and mythic 0. In those dungeons, people generally only pull one group at a time, and often wipe if a second group adds. Nerfing thunderclap will result in many more wild mobs from ranged burst DPS than can be taunted back. Warrior tanks will become close to unplayable for average players as their runs become excessively chaotic and stressful and as groups start to avoid themk for tanking.
There is an underlying problem, but it has nothing to do with thunderclap. The underlying problem is that mythic+ encourages cheesy massive pulls of trash mobs. If we need to fix that, it should be fixed by ensuring that pulling more than one or two groups of trash is a guaranteed wipe, for example by buffing the damage done by mobs, not by nerfing an ability that’s needed for the raids and dungeons normal people actually run.
In the meantime, it’s frankly okay if +18 is unbalanced. Rogues are already seen as essentially mandatory as low as +7 or +8; if prot warriors aren’t seen as mandatory until +18, that’s actually pretty good balance. If you absolutely need to nerf prot warriors, leave the threat generation of thunderclap alone and just eliminate the damage.
“Useless” is a pretty strong word. That’s the thing about hyperbole; it requires strong words.
A reduction to TClap damage isn’t going to make us useless. Will I miss skyrocketing past my group’s highest dps on AoE trash pulls during my Avatar window? Of course I will. Will I still be the strongest physical damage mitigation tank in the game? Of course I will.
I mean, really, you had to see this nerf coming months ago.
You’re a mythic raider doing +14s. I doubt you have recent experience in leveling dungeons with questionably competent ranged DPS opening with burst and blaming you for not holding aggro.
This was par for the course when threat was nerfed after Legion. Threat has since been buffed slightly since then, and is now in a good place, with only really clueless and impatient DPS ripping aggro, which is fine.
Halving our AOE threat is going to make it worse than it was when everyone was complaining about lack of threat. And the fact that it will happen only to warrior tanks will make groups of average players treat us like lepers.
I don’t care about damage. I care about the threat. If Blizzard really wants to nerf Thunderclap by half, they should get rid of all the damage and leave all the threat there.
As crappy as a 50% nerf sounds in reality the talent makes you have 150% damage for thunderclap instead of 200%. Your normal thunderclaps outside of your avatar window are going to be just as effective a threat generator. And with Avatar you are still dishing out a decent portion of damage with the boost (while nerfed) and the reduced cooldown not being touched.
Unstoppable Force Thunderclap damage reduced to 50% (was 100%).
Developers’ notes: Protection Warrior burst DPS with Avatar is extremely high for a
tank. This talent was adding more damage than necessary, given that it
also decreases Thunder Clap’s cooldown and synergizes well with certain Azerite traits.
Thanks, useful information. I’m not sure “synergizes well with certain Azerite traits” is a reason to nerf a talent, and I’d prefer they nerf the cooldown improvement rather than the damage, but if correct, that does sound more reasonable.
OK, if you thought TClap itself was getting nerfed, I’d understand your ire.
Good rule of thumb: when you hear about an upcoming change via your friends/guildies/a forum post, always go to the source and read about the actual change yourself. These things almost always get blown way out of proportion.
The Unstoppable Force nerf, while something I wont say I’m happy about, was always kind of inevitable.
an 8% overall damage nerf still leaves us ahead of other tanks in damage in most dungeons; we may end up losing to paladins in Single-target heavy dungeons, especially after season 2 ends and reaping is no longer a thing but I think it’s still too early to say.
A nerf to cooldown improvement would hurt aoe threat generation even more, and mitigation as well.
Talent and azerite/tier/legendary synergy has been a thing since always and nerfing a talent is sometimes the right way to go. The main thing they’re trying to get at here is the obscene burst aoe of prot’s avatar window and this is a smart way to do it.
This is funny. You’re saying average players have a hard time playing any tank other than warrior because no other tank can do that much aoe damage thus it is ok for prot warriors to out dps damage dealing specs.