5 weeks of 100% winrate not enough?

[Izlechitsa-grobbulus]

A lot of arguments in this post are subjective, so I’m just pointing out the things that are objectively false. I do want to mention that you refute the weak cave argument correctly but ignore the stronger cave argument (horde rezzing at cave to defend IBGY x20 vs Alliance rezzing at SP x 10 to defend SHGY).

So let’s dig in to the things that indicate you haven’t played the alliance side of the map.

@Kagthul-bleeding-hollow

Alliance can ride straight into Galv’s room. Murp is only there if you delay going to Galv, he starts at TP and takes forever to get to Galv’s door. There are no additional NPCs to worry about agroing other than maybe some wolves depending on where you catch them on your pat.

What? There are 2 Lts immediately outside of Galvs room. Either side of the doorway, and impossible to avoid when going in.

@Kagthul-bleeding-hollow

-Every Ally bunker has an elite NPC in the lower part of the bunker that you will aggro unless you hug the exact right spot going in. Some have up to three. Horde towers have none. All “equivalent” NPCs are on patrol routes near the tower and can be avoided completely.

False; you have commander Dardosh who guards the IBT flag and Louis who guards TP.

@Kagthul-bleeding-hollow

Horde towers are also easier for agressors to defend because of the closed room.

If they’re “easier to defend” then that’s the same for both “aggressors” and “defenders”. LOS is a nightmare on these towers for both assisting dps and healing.

@Kagthul-bleeding-hollow

Moving north, you’re forced into one of two paths:

There are 3: you can also ride the path up to the Alliance cave and rain down on SPGY.

@Kagthul-bleeding-hollow

What worked for us was pointing out and complaining about your faction engaging in mass cheating

The Horde benefiting from the map is not unlike the Alliance benefitting from the queue system and faction balance numbers. Label them how you want to with feelings but both are under Blizz control.

@Kagthul-bleeding-hollow

Uh… yeah they do? The EU isn’t having this issue at all. Its like… you could even go read their forums. Guess what you wont see.

You’re the one not reading the EU forums. This is false.

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/close-av-backdoor-please-so-alliance-have-no-excuse-when-they-continue-to-lose-99-of-games/128093

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/why-are-allies-losing-90-of-avs/126866

There’s a couple for your ease of becoming more informed.

I played Horde exclusively until 2017 (so 12 years) and I do not remember rezzing at the cave when IBGY was under attack. I also do remember alliance winning a lot when rushing objectives for both sides was the “meta” but most of my memories are of the slow grind between pushing SHGY back to SPGY and never using the 2 alternate paths for some reason. Granted I’ve always healed so I do tend to follow the masses quite a bit . The game overall is not played the same way as it was at launch, in January, or in Vanilla. Does Alliance contribute to the crap faction experience? Absolutely. Significantly. But even the people who I knew that were the most passionate about overcoming the mindset of “just lose already” have become so discouraged by the obstacles that they either 1) don’t queue anymore, 2) play in small teams looking for small skirmishes, or 3) have moved on to other things than Classic. Thanks for reading.

Edited for phone formatting errors

[Hurtmode-atiesh]

I’ve NEVER died to a an alliance while staying mounted trying to ride away.

What a weird flex.
So you’ll get trashed on your mount then dismount, switch to zerk to try and get an intercept off then go to the spirit rez. Warrs melt like butter bud, don’t act like you’re hoodrych.

[Hurtmode-atiesh]

Ty Izzy for the informative post.
I also mained horde till wod (human racial ) and the only time I’d Rez in the horde cave was when we’d have zero gys.

[Ultimecia-benediction]

You can’t beg for wins, you have to work for them.

mean crying for a whole month until blizzard Adjusted the game just for you?

[Deafcake-benediction]

Hell, you play horde and are so bad at WoW that you hide behind an alt so I can’t snipe your logs.

Dude is 4 bosses into Mythic, and you want to check his Classic WoW parses. LMAO just wow.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

You can’t beg for wins, you have to work for them.

mean crying for a whole month until blizzard Adjusted the game just for you?

Keep pretending that was blizzard’s motivation for the crackdown on cheaters.

[Magnetite-atiesh]

No, alliance was playing AV the way it wasn’t meant to be played. You aren’t supposed to fill up an AV with a good chunk of your faction’s roster with people from your own server.

Especially if there was no queue as group function. If everyone pushed the queue button ungrouped at exactly the same time, you won’t all get into the same AV, due to the random nature of the queue system.

Even now, you can only queue with 5 people at a time from your own server. That still leaves 35 spots for random people.

[Mao-grobbulus]

You aren’t entitled to wins.

Go out and earn them.

[Graff-nathrezim]

But even the people who I knew that were the most passionate about overcoming the mindset of “just lose already” have become so discouraged by the obstacles that they either 1) don’t queue anymore, 2) play in small teams looking for small skirmishes, or 3) have moved on to other things than Classic.

Yep. I was a longtime AV fan and a “never give up” PVPer. You can only do that for so long before you say to yourself there has to be something better and so you leave for greener pastures.

AV is broken, for whatever reason, and I won’t be joining it anytime soon.

[Kagthul-bleeding-hollow (Kagthul)]

This is the primary reason the cave needs moved back.

I want the cave to be moved back FARTHER than the Alliance cave. Then what will the excuse be?

Im sure theyll find something.

Cant blame the actual culprit, that would admit that its a player created problem.

[Kagthul-bleeding-hollow (Kagthul)]

@Izlechitsa-grobbulus

A lot of arguments in this post are subjective,

Umm, no, those are objective facts. I dont think you know what the word “subjective” means, 'cause it seems you have them backwards in your head.

so I’m just pointing out the things that are objectively false.

Umm… no. You’re using your subjective standards.

I do want to mention that you refute the weak cave argument correctly but ignore the stronger cave argument (horde rezzing at cave to defend IBGY x20 vs Alliance rezzing at SP x 10 to defend SHGY).

This is not a map problem, but a player problem. Alliance could rez 20 deep at their GY. Its a 4 second difference. If there arent 20 players rezzing and trying to recap SHGY, thats a player problem.

So let’s dig in to the things that indicate you haven’t played the alliance side of the map.

Incorrect. Ive played extensively on the “Alliance side of the map” during Vanilla - a friend bailed out on the game six months in and left me his account (which i merged with my Bnet account when that became a thing, and no, its not account sharing, because hes never come back and afaik, never even purchased another Blizzard product) with a 60 Dwarf Warrior and a 60 Gnome Mage.

I had several hundred hours of Alliance AV under my belt, thanks.

@Kagthul-bleeding-hollow

Alliance can ride straight into Galv’s room. Murp is only there if you delay going to Galv, he starts at TP and takes forever to get to Galv’s door. There are no additional NPCs to worry about agroing other than maybe some wolves depending on where you catch them on your pat.

What? There are 2 Lts immediately outside of Galvs room. Either side of the doorway, and impossible to avoid when going in.

No there aren’t. You’re utterly, straight up delusional if you believe this. The two LTs that CAN be near Galv both start NOWHERE NEAR HIM. They path near him, and then path back to where they start. The only way you will run into either one is if you delay heading to Galv by at least 5 minutes.

@Kagthul-bleeding-hollow

-Every Ally bunker has an elite NPC in the lower part of the bunker that you will aggro unless you hug the exact right spot going in. Some have up to three. Horde towers have none. All “equivalent” NPCs are on patrol routes near the tower and can be avoided completely.

False; you have commander Dardosh who guards the IBT flag and Louis who guards TP.

Uhh. no. Theyre outside, on the roads. They are NOT in the towers. I can literally get into an AV right now, ride right up to the tower, and take screenshots if you want. There are no NPCs in the towers themselves.

@Kagthul-bleeding-hollow

Horde towers are also easier for agressors to defend because of the closed room.

If they’re “easier to defend” then that’s the same for both “aggressors” and “defenders”. LOS is a nightmare on these towers for both assisting dps and healing.

Which completely ignores the fact that you cant park 10 guys in the tower to defend it - otherwise you wont have enough O… but the enemy OFFENSE CAN partk 10 dudes in it to burn it.

@Kagthul-bleeding-hollow

Moving north, you’re forced into one of two paths:

There are 3: you can also ride the path up to the Alliance cave and rain down on SPGY.

… i just… you know, never mind. You’re not even remotely trying to argue in good faith. A single Alliance ranged sitting on the lower hill can prevent this. If you’re too stupid to figure that out, i cant help you. And its nice to see you gloss over the fact that the entire setup is still 1000% better than FWGY sitting out in the middle of an empty field. Man, inconvenient facts.

@Kagthul-bleeding-hollow

What worked for us was pointing out and complaining about your faction engaging in mass cheating

The Horde benefiting from the map is not unlike the Alliance benefitting from the queue system and faction balance numbers. Label them how you want to with feelings but both are under Blizz control.

No, one is cheating. The other is not.

All of you Ally imbeciles keep trying to pretend it isnt, but it is.

You. Were. Cheating.

Blatantly Cheating.

100%.

Blizzard put in systems to prevent you from joining as a group. You did so anyway (and so did some Horde, and shame on them). Thats cheating. Straight up. 100% cheating.

Continue trying to twist words and move goalposts to somehow create a world in which you WERENT cheating, but you were.

And now you’re trying to justify that cheating because you HAD TO to defeat the OVERWHELMING 4 SECOND ADVANTAGE that just makes it UTTERLY IMPOSSIBLE to defeat the Horde.

Give me a break. Thats a complete farce.

If you’re losing because of four seconds, its because you’re bad. Im with the guy who said move the cave back into FWK or to the very bottom of the map.

When you continue to lose en-masse, what will your pathetic excuse be then?

You’re losing because people are ghosting you and you’re overmatched. Thats a 100% legit complaint, and one im 100% behind you guys in trying to get fixed. Trying to blame it on anything else is pedantic crap and you know it.

@Kagthul-bleeding-hollow

Uh… yeah they do? The EU isn’t having this issue at all. Its like… you could even go read their forums. Guess what you wont see.

You’re the one not reading the EU forums. This is false.

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/close-av-backdoor-please-so-alliance-have-no-excuse-when-they-continue-to-lose-99-of-games/128093

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/why-are-allies-losing-90-of-avs/126866

There’s a couple for your ease of becoming more informed.

Yeah, i was just there.

You had to search specifically for those threads, they are’t even in the top 100. There’s a word for what you’re doing: intellectual dishonesty. There’s… ONE thread about Alliance complaining in AV in the top 100. One.

I played Horde exclusively until 2017 (so 12 years) and I do not remember rezzing at the cave when IBGY was under attack.

Then your memory is flawed. Its like… you can go watch videos from Vanilla. Where this happened.

completely irrelevant memory-flaw snipped.

By all means, though, keep making excuses.

You’re losing because you’re being ghosted, leeched, and afk’ed. And that sucks. Im 100% behind trying to find a fix. No one can be expected to win a 30v40.

But im not sure there’s going to be a fix. As long as the queues are instant, there’s no incentive not to leech or afk or ghost.

Horde play to win because we sit in an hour+ queue. Thats why we dont have a problem with AFKers, ghosters, etc. As long as your queues are instant, thats that. People will ghost and AFK because its easy to get what they want without participating.

GL with that.

[Celldwellar-benediction]

Yeah it sucked. 1.12 was a huge improvement i loved when it came out. Av is very enjoyable if both teams pvp on their way to the objectives without turtling too long. A 30 min match. But one faction refuses to play that way.

And the other faction chooses to not play at all because they can’t win.

[Consensus-hyjal]

The Horde benefiting from the map is not unlike the Alliance benefitting from the queue system and faction balance numbers. Label them how you want to with feelings but both are under Blizz control.

You are correct. Horde using the skewed map to intentionally shut alliance out is not unlike alliance using the faction imbalance to premade. Both are an advantage being used because it is possible to do. Horde will cry exploit on this, but will ignore what the map allows them to do to alliance pugs by claiming they’re just “better” or “want to PvP after long queues” or “25% of alliance are afk” or whatever egocentric reason they can come up with rather than accept that they do it because the map allows it.

[Izlechitsa-grobbulus]

@Kagthul-bleeding-hollow

This is not a map problem, but a player problem. Alliance could rez 20 deep at their GY. Its a 4 second difference. If there arent 20 players rezzing and trying to recap SHGY, thats a player problem.

What does this mean? At a GY you can only spawn 10 at a time, every 30 seconds. How is that a 4 second difference?

@Kagthul-bleeding-hollow

The two LTs that CAN be near Galv both start NOWHERE NEAR HIM.

Interesting, because even in the first week of launch when we were by Galv in the first minute we had to deal with the two Elite npcs which are mounted on raptors immediately parked outside Galv’s entrance.

@Kagthul-bleeding-hollow

Uhh. no. Theyre outside, on the roads. They are NOT in the towers. I can literally get into an AV right now, ride right up to the tower, and take screenshots if you want. There are no NPCs in the towers themselves.

Get those screenshots. Grummus and Murp (the giant fat UD mobs) pat around outside. Dardosh is at the flag at Iceblood Tower. Louis is at the flag in Tower Point. Again, very key elements to rush strategies is mages/hunters pulling them down from the towers and kiting them to the group.

@Kagthul-bleeding-hollow

A single Alliance ranged sitting on the lower hill can prevent this. If you’re too stupid to figure that out, i cant help you.

The only thing that is showing potential stupidity on my part is my bothering to respond to your either blatant trolling or laziness to actually check your assumptions. The argument I was refuting was that there were 2 paths to SPGY. There are 3, all are defendable, yes.

Here’s a post from the “front page” of the EU forums since the last two links weren’t satisfactory.

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/why-are-allies-losing-90-of-avs/126866

The last thing I’m going to say is that my arguing raw, confirmable facts is the definition of objectivity. Double check yourself once and a while from that high horse, and the facts while you’re at it.

Bye

[Jtgam-pagle]

The two LTs that CAN be near Galv both start NOWHERE NEAR HIM.

I think you might be delusional. I also think every other person that has played in AV might call you out on this one. Try riding to Galv next time, then look at the two LTs that stand next to his door.

I can literally get into an AV right now, ride right up to the tower, and take screenshots if you want. There are no NPCs in the towers themselves.

Please do so. Also remember to include the BG time. I will be waiting for these screenshots which will never actually appear.

I don’t think you’ve ever entered AV with these statements. They are so patently false, anyone who has even looked at their own objectives would know this.

Edit: I can’t believe I even missed this one… This one is actually hilarious.

Murp is only there if you delay going to Galv, he starts at TP and takes forever to get to Galv’s door.

Murp doesn’t go anywhere near Galv. Murp pats around TP…

[Izlechitsa-grobbulus]

Murp doesn’t go anywhere near Galv. Murp pats around TP…

Correct. In this instance he must have meant Grummus but agreed lol @ the level of “I’m going to argue stuff that’s just wrong and then repeat it when someone corrects me”

[Corgi-bloodsail-buccaneers]

I just hate how both SH and SP Graveyard just pin Alliance with only one exit. It also doesn’t help that while I’m trying to deal with any Horde on the Flag I’m getting blasted through the mountains that Horde can just shoot through.

[Bodicca-westfall]

Private servers did classic very very well much better than what we have now.

FYI u will get silenced by the trolls for saying anything truthful about pservers

And the proof of these words is that this post was flagged.

[Bodicca-westfall]

I don’t think you’ve actually been in AV.

[Smartdeath-faerlina]

On the classic PTR you can buy AV wins straight from the blizzard store for $2.99

Finally they got this weird AV system corrected